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Old 04-24-2015, 01:38 PM   #127
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The rise in Dodge sales numbers is not solely driven on the hellcat. The 2015 model upgrade made the cars look much better in my opinion and the sales charts reflect that a lot of people agree with me. The old body style was getting very stale but the facelift matured the car very well. The new interior is also much better than the previous car by far. Up until the 2015 model I would've never considered buying one but after test driving a 392 at a car show I have to admit I'm sold. The only thing holding me back is that Dodge seems to lack build quality. Every person I know that has owned any Chrysler Group vehicle has had mechanical issues.
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Old 04-24-2015, 01:44 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by xgnxs View Post
I don't really see this happening, as the ZL1 and Z28 are two completely different cars with different goals (high performance, track focused), as opposed to the Z06 and ZR1 which were high performance and higher performance corvette models.
As much as I hate to say this I don't see a future Z/28 unless it will take the place of the ZL1 or maybe the 1LE. The Z/28 is an amazing car but has been such a huge sales flop. Think about how poorly the Z/28 sales are and yet how great the demand is for the Hellcat, and yes I realize the hellcat is cheaper. The majority of people don't care how fast a car is around a track. They want something semi comfortable that will fly when you put the pedal to the floor. People always say they want a racecar to drive on the street yet when Chevy gave them one the sales were horrible because that's not what people really want...
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Old 04-24-2015, 02:30 PM   #129
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Chevrolet will most likely combine the ZL1 and Z/28 characteristics like they did with the Z06 and ZR1.

In doing so they will give it a downgraded LT4 similar to the CTS-V.

This is the most logical and probably most financially sound move in my opinion. I doubt there will be any significant surprises like a new engine or something.
Who said they were not going to build a ZR1? The last gen ZR1 came out a year after the Z06 did and two years after the introduction of the C6.

Also just because we have not heard of another V8 under development doesn't mean there isn't one. I think it would be premature to say that a turbo or twin turbo V8 isn't in development based on the recent introductions of three turbo engines, the LGW 3.0TT, LF4 and LF3 3.6TT.
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Old 04-24-2015, 02:31 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by H13rarchy View Post
As much as I hate to say this I don't see a future Z/28 unless it will take the place of the ZL1 or maybe the 1LE. The Z/28 is an amazing car but has been such a huge sales flop. Think about how poorly the Z/28 sales are and yet how great the demand is for the Hellcat, and yes I realize the hellcat is cheaper. The majority of people don't care how fast a car is around a track. They want something semi comfortable that will fly when you put the pedal to the floor. People always say they want a racecar to drive on the street yet when Chevy gave them one the sales were horrible because that's not what people really want...
You might be right. It's such a cool car and I know I'd love to have one but it is a little pricey... Not to mention it would be reeaallly difficult to pass a Z06 up...

Whether we see another or not might depend on sales of the 350R
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Old 04-24-2015, 02:51 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by xgnxs View Post
You might be right. It's such a cool car and I know I'd love to have one but it is a little pricey... Not to mention it would be reeaallly difficult to pass a Z06 up...

Whether we see another or not might depend on sales of the 350R
If I were to buy a gen 5 Camaro it would be a Z/28 even though it lacks the tech I'm really looking for in my next car. But you're right. At that price point why not spend a bit more and get a base Z06. Nicer interior and still faster. I think the GT350 will be covered with the next version of the 1LE, since the current 1LE already out handles the GT track pack. Don't expect big sales numbers from the 350R. It's going to be very a limited run like the Boss Laguna Seca.
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Old 04-24-2015, 03:07 PM   #132
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I would agree to that. It definitely helps sales in that particular segment. And it would be 3rd out of the 3 right?
Segment wise yes. But i was speaking about about the gt500/charger/challenger/zl1.
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Look at what percentage of total sales the GT500/Hellcat/ZL1/ Z/28 of their respective models these cars make up. That should tell you how important the war really is. In every one of these cars it's the fleet sales and lower trim cars that carry the load. The Hellcat moved the dodge up based solely on marketing. The same way Transformers put the Camaro in the spotlight. The Mustang had a year long campaign to make sure everyone knew it was coming. The bragging rights camp is not who keeps the Camaro alive. As much as you want to think we do, the 4th gen proved that. GM has to appeal to a broader spectrum.

So they have to balance power, performance, style, and luxury. You can't win every category for the price of the Camaro.
The 4th gen problems were ergonomics and style not performance. The camaro can look and handle great as they already do but why not add more power for the special models? Won't hurt anything but corvette owners. Also the "marketing" you speak of helps draw people onto stealerships and then they pick up what they can afford.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xgnxs View Post
I don't really see this happening, as the ZL1 and Z28 are two completely different cars with different goals (high performance, track focused), as opposed to the Z06 and ZR1 which were high performance and higher performance corvette models.
Seriously? The camaro break down is just like the vettes or at least it was.
SS/vette-general performance/daily driver
Z28/zo6-track focused
Zl1/zr1-all out performance
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Old 04-24-2015, 03:16 PM   #133
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It beat the ZL1 on Laguna Seca track:
The Mustang laid down the faster lap solely by virtue of its 82-horsepower, 75-lb-ft advantage in a drag race up the front straight to the finish line. The result: Shelby, 1:38.69; ZL1, 1:39.18.

However to be fair:
While the Mustang was a half-second faster around the track than the ZL1 on its best lap, it couldn't repeat the performance. By the end of the first lap, the brakes had already begun to heat up so badly, we could smell them from the pits as the car passed by on the front straight. By the end of the second lap, the Shelby had lost more than half of its advantage over the ZL1, turning a 1:39.03. By the third lap, the Mustang was behind the Camaro, turning a 1:39.30. The ZL1, meanwhile, never deviated by more than two-tenths of a second.


Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz3Y68hFTXD

So around a track I guess it depends on which track and how you go around it. The point I was trying to make with the lap time comparisons is that sometimes its not a really fast (straight line) car that can post a great time and I hope the Camaro crew is not forgetting about straight line acceleration because I hear a lot about lap times.

1/4 mile trap speeds, a true indication of horsepower and acceleration:
GT500 traps about 126MPH
ZL1 traps about 117MPH
Hellcat traps about 126MPH

I want to get a 6th gen Camaro, I just want it to be fast in all aspects and a joy to drive, because really, thats what its all about.
Let's not forget that straight line speed is the easiest to modify. Full exhaust, pulley, intake, injectors and a tune and you're right there. The ZL1's weaknesses fix easily. The GT500's weaknesses are built into the car. They are difficult, if not impossible, to fix.
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Old 04-24-2015, 03:16 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by H13rarchy View Post
If I were to buy a gen 5 Camaro it would be a Z/28 even though it lacks the tech I'm really looking for in my next car. But you're right. At that price point why not spend a bit more and get a base Z06. Nicer interior and still faster. I think the GT350 will be covered with the next version of the 1LE, since the current 1LE already out handles the GT track pack. Don't expect big sales numbers from the 350R. It's going to be very a limited run like the Boss Laguna Seca.
After doing a bit more reading about the GT350, you may be right that a 1LE (or equivalent) package on a standard SS might be all it takes to take on the 350. 350 may have more power but the the SS will have more torque (unless the LT1 gets ridiculously detuned and Ford's promise of "more than 400 lb ft of torque" is a lot more than 400).

I would expect sales of the 350R to be about the same as the Z28, since they're geared towards the same thing - crazy track performance. Will the 350R have a flying car mode though?!
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Old 04-24-2015, 03:28 PM   #135
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Segment wise yes. But i was speaking about about the gt500/charger/challenger/zl1.
Ah ok, wondered if you were talking about the Charger. I was sticking to the 2 door segment. It's a shame GM doesn't really doesn't offer anything to compete with the Charger. The Holden is priced like an SRT and isn't really competing with the Charger's market. If I have to get 4 doors next year, it will be the Charger.
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Old 04-24-2015, 03:38 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28 View Post
Seriously? The camaro break down is just like the vettes or at least it was.
SS/vette-general performance/daily driver
Z28/zo6-track focused
Zl1/zr1-all out performance
Yes, seriously. Calling the Z28 "track focused" is like calling the sun "hot." The Z28 is a street legal race car, like if they were to make the COPO a street legal drag car. So focused on one particular task that it wouldn't even make sense to daily drive one. You could, obviously, but, it's not built for that. The Z06 and ZR1 (C6 corvettes, since we don't have a ZR1 for the C7) are much more similar than the Z28 and ZL1, I feel like. You have the base C6, an upgraded C6 (Z06), more power, looks better, etc, then the top level C6 (ZR1) with the most power, carbon ceramic brakes, etc.

I guess the real difference is that the Z28 doesn't feel like the top level camaro like the ZR1 feels like the top level corvette. Yes, it's the most expensive and fastest around a track, but it isn't the most powerful. That's why the general consensus is "Z28 for the track, ZL1 for the strip."

Two different cars, two different goals, vs levels of performance (Z06 / ZR1). That's just how I see it, anyway
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:09 PM   #137
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Who said they were not going to build a ZR1? The last gen ZR1 came out a year after the Z06 did and two years after the introduction of the C6.

Also just because we have not heard of another V8 under development doesn't mean there isn't one. I think it would be premature to say that a turbo or twin turbo V8 isn't in development based on the recent introductions of three turbo engines, the LGW 3.0TT, LF4 and LF3 3.6TT.
What's the ZR1 going to have that makes it worth buying over the current Z06?
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:23 PM   #138
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What's the ZR1 going to have that makes it worth buying over the current Z06?
Don't know about a ZR1, but they just released the new 2016 Z06 C7.R.

Chevrolet Introduces 2016 Corvette Z06 C7.R Edition

Track-to-street connection honored with limited production model

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/n...-z06-c7-r.html
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:25 PM   #139
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Don't know about a ZR1, but they just released the new 2016 Z06 C7.R.

Chevrolet Introduces 2016 Corvette Z06 C7.R Edition

Track-to-street connection honored with limited production model

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/n...-z06-c7-r.html
Another joke decal packge..
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Old 04-24-2015, 08:42 PM   #140
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Don't know about a ZR1, but they just released the new 2016 Z06 C7.R.

Chevrolet Introduces 2016 Corvette Z06 C7.R Edition

Track-to-street connection honored with limited production model

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/n...-z06-c7-r.html
Good ole jake edition. Kind of expected that one.
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