[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by GreenZLE

I couldnt disagree more, simply because I dont think I'm unlucky enough to have every car I'm a fan of cancelled. Every. Car.

My wife owned mostly Pontiacs from 1990 to 2010. IMO they were viewed as an upscale chevy. She and I loved her Grand Prix and would have kept buying them forever. Pontiac got cancelled. Side note, her family's dealership lost that brand. We had to move her into a Buick.

My grandparents loved Buick. They bought several Park Ave's and I even got 1 as a hand me down. Excellent car, great mileage, fantastic reliability. Cancelled. I had to move into a used Regal after that.

In 2017, we bought an Impala Premier and LaCrosse Essence, brand new. My son bought an Impala too. Loved the Impala, HATE the LaCrosse. Its the WORST! I just dont like the car, whatsoever. My son owns his Impala to this day because he cant find anything GM makes he wants so he's driving it till its dead. 140,000 on his car. Very reliable.

My wife needed a new car in 2022. She would have bought a Pontiac but they're dead, she would have even bought another LaCrosse or Impala, but both were killed off. We settled for a new Acadia. She doesnt like it. I'm mediocre about it. I'd like a sedan with a trunk so when I transport my guns, the cops cant see them. Well, unless I buy a malibu, there's no chance of that. Plus, my 300Win Mag wont fit in a Malibu and if we travel, there's not enough room in the back for the 2 youngest kids who are late teens.

Rather than spend boatloads of money on EV tooling for Buicks, my family took the buyout.

GM completely killed everything I preferred to buy as primary transportation. We have an Equinox and an Acadia, 2 vehicles we dont like or want. Are we the 10% of America that wants these cancelled vehicles? I think not.

Moving forward, our next purchases will be foreign sedans, no matter if it kills my family members that own the GM dealership. GM has managed to completely kill 100% of the business from my family, even though our extended family own a GM dealership!

IMO, GM should sell itself off to china and just go away. china would probably market a new Park Avenue clone built with slave labor and we'd sign off on selling it here!

Like I said, glad you liked Pontiac’s and sorry it was the chopped brands. But they were redundant to Chevy and lost GM money. Sorry, but there was no justifying Pontiac’s continued existence. Everything Pontiac offered could and did move over to Chevy. You can blame the government all you want, but any competent management would make the exact same choices as to which brands to ditch back in 2009.

The industry changed. Eight brands was not sustainable and that was proven by GM’s bankruptcy.

[GreenZLE]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Like I said, glad you liked Pontiac’s and sorry it was the chopped brands. But they were redundant to Chevy and lost GM money. Sorry, but there was no justifying Pontiac’s continued existence. Everything Pontiac offered could and did move over to Chevy. You can blame the government all you want, but any competent management would make the exact same choices as to which brands to ditch back in 2009.

The industry changed. Eight brands was not sustainable and that was proven by GM’s bankruptcy.

Yea well, everything else we moved to also got chopped, right down to the Impala. Very unlikely 5 models, when you include the Camaro, evaporated due to lack of demand in such a short period of time. This is even further supported by my in laws with the dealership telling me how many complaints they've had about models that were axed. They had people buying plenty of Impalas and LaCrosses in 2020 that bought because they were being cancelled.

The whole country decided they only wanted SUV's and now they've decided they only want EV SUV's? LOL! I dont think so.

We'll be buying a foreign 4 door sedan in about 2 years. The American market has abandoned people like me. If I ever let go of the ZLE, it will most likely be replaced by a BMW M class. I doubt it though as this was pretty much my dream car.

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by GreenZLE

Yea well, everything else we moved to also got chopped, right down to the Impala. Very unlikely 5 models, when you include the Camaro, evaporated due to lack of demand in such a short period of time. This is even further supported by my in laws with the dealership telling me how many complaints they've had about models that were axed. They had people buying plenty of Impalas and LaCrosses in 2020 that bought because they were being cancelled.

The whole country decided they only wanted SUV's and now they've decided they only want EV SUV's? LOL! I dont think so.

We'll be buying a foreign 4 door sedan in about 2 years. The American market has abandoned people like me. If I ever let go of the ZLE, it will most likely be replaced by a BMW M class. I doubt it though as this was pretty much my dream car.

The market did move to crossovers and SUV’s…..


Only sedans that still sell in any decent number are Toyota’s and Honda’s offerings. Every other ones were in perpetual decline.

Another self-inflicted wound when GM and others decided to put out crap from the 80’s through 00’s and lost that market. Despite how good the last Impala was.

[Alan47717]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Like I said, glad you liked Pontiac’s and sorry it was the chopped brands. But they were redundant to Chevy and lost GM money. Sorry, but there was no justifying Pontiac’s continued existence. Everything Pontiac offered could and did move over to Chevy. You can blame the government all you want, but any competent management would make the exact same choices as to which brands to ditch back in 2009.

The industry changed. Eight brands was not sustainable and that was proven by GM’s bankruptcy.

Pontiac did have unique models models not offered by Chevrolet. The completely redundant division, GMC, was saved because Chevrolet actually runs this company. GMC's books look really good because it doesn't cost very much to build rebadged Chevys. Chevrolet has a lot invested in the "Professional Grade" crap of the GMC brand (why they never challenge Ford's sales leadership claims). It's a neat trick, charging more money for the same thing with a different name.

[GreenZLE]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

The market did move to crossovers and SUV’s…..


Only sedans that still sell in any decent number are Toyota’s and Honda’s offerings. Every other ones were in perpetual decline.

Another self-inflicted wound when GM and others decided to put out crap from the 80’s through 00’s and lost that market. Despite how good the last Impala was.

The market moved to SUV's but not 4 to 1! I talk to all kinds of people that want an Impala sized sedan that settled for a SUV and so do the dealerships! The ONLY things that prevented me and my wife from buying foreign was family loyalty and American loyalty! Well, those are gone now, we've had it! I still think at least part of the move was due to lack of options.

I wonder how many people will declare that American quality is why American car companies went out of business! Surely it isnt because of forced offerings (sarc)! I predict 4 door sedans made by other brands will continue to sell more and more then all of a sudden, some "genius" will declare the market shifted! No, you didnt pay it any attention! My daughter and her husband own a Audi A7. They bought it partly because there's no AMERICAN offering. Oh well, American companies dont want to learn, so be it! Maybe its more fair to say the GOVERNMENT didnt learn.

[Texas1ss]

Originally Posted by Spaceme1117

The electrical grid is being made less reliable by replacing reliable power (nuclear, gas, coal) with unreliable power (solar, wind). That is happening now. Texas found that out in 2021 when their grid collapsed.

This is totally untrue and a Fox, Newsmax, OANN talking point. Even our governor, Greg Abbott, blamed solar and wind on Fox News and was lying through his teeth, and he damn well knew it.

I lived through that hell down here in Houston, Texas, researched the hell out of why it happened because it was miserable and so many people died.

You couldn't be more wrong. Google it. I would take the time to put up links, but from your post I have a feeling you'd probably say it was just "Fake news."

But for anybody reading Spaceme1117's post who cares about facts it's easy to find the truth. You'll find out people who push that narrative, and to a lesser extent anti-EV zealots, are full of it.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by SomeGeoffGuy

And it's not even true. I priced out a Mustang that was optioned similar to my 2SS convertible with Mag-ride, NPP, and Nav, and it was almost $10k more.

-Geoff

Well, for most of the life of the Camaro, they refused to make a stripped version of the SS, like Ford did with the GT and not-serious skinny tires. Cheap car that you could brag about having a V8. They have kind of done that on a larger scale, rather than just have one sportscar platform, they've made high performing cars all across the board, ATS-V, CTS-V-including a wagon, Corvette Grand Sport, Z06, and so on. Knocking it out of the park with the C8 even. Ford wasn't on the same planet performance-wise. But this isn't a way to make money. This is a way to make a reputation for performance. The two don't go hand in hand. Ford was much more about making money with the Mustang. They made it easier to live with for the people who weren't so serious about performance...which was basically the majority. These people are flocking to SUVs and trucks, not CT5s and Camaros.

[taylorforschool@gmail.com]

Originally Posted by 79 TransAm that never was

Thanks! Good read.
EV - Extended Vacation. You'll need an extended vacation if you travel more then 50 miles from your home in an EV.
EV's aren't about "saving the planet". EV's are all about taking away our freedom of movement.

It comes as no surprise to this former gm employee that they stopped listening to their customers when gm didn't even listen to it's employees!
gm has always been top heavy, but back in the day they still managed to put out products people liked. gm became lazy, gave up without trying, and blamed everyone but themselves for their poor sales.

Rather than fighting, gm just eliminated divisions driving those divisions loyal customers to their competition. Employees could see the problems a mile away, yet upper management chugged along, became yes men for bad ideas and then blamed all of their problems on their assembly workers.

I sold all of my gm stock the moment they went on their "downsizing" craze on the factory floor, while upper management stayed intact. Every employee on the floor knew that gm was on a path to bankruptcy. Killing the Camaro is just another example of what's really wrong at gm...gm has been run by imbeciles for far too long!

Amen, couldn’t come from a better source

[GreenZLE]

Originally Posted by Texas1ss

This is totally untrue and a Fox, Newsmax, OANN talking point. Even our governor, Greg Abbott, blamed solar and wind on Fox News and was lying through his teeth, and he damn well knew it.

I lived through that hell down here in Houston, Texas, researched the hell out of why it happened because it was miserable and so many people died.

You couldn't be more wrong. Google it. I would take the time to put up links, but from your post I have a feeling you'd probably say it was just "Fake news."

But for anybody reading Spaceme1117's post who cares about facts it's easy to find the truth. You'll find out people who push that narrative, and to a lesser extent anti-EV zealots, are full of it.

Its 100% true. In Springfield IL, we fought tooth and nail to get our new powerplant with the green nazi approved scrubber approved! It delayed the plant nearly 7 years! Now, 15 years into its operation, they say it will be decommissioned within the next 10 years to save the earth!!! What a complete waste!

[genxer]

This guy is an ex-advertiser and rips everyone, but worth reading for now.
http://www.autoextremist.com/current/?currentPage=2
http://www.autoextremist.com/current/?currentPage=3
http://www.autoextremist.com/current/?currentPage=4

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Alan47717

Pontiac did have unique models models not offered by Chevrolet. The completely redundant division, GMC, was saved because Chevrolet actually runs this company. GMC's books look really good because it doesn't cost very much to build rebadged Chevys. Chevrolet has a lot invested in the "Professional Grade" crap of the GMC brand (why they never challenge Ford's sales leadership claims). It's a neat trick, charging more money for the same thing with a different name.

Only unique models I’m recalling is the G8 and Solstice( Chevy didn’t have a version, but did have the Saturn Sky). Which the G8( GXP) became the Chevy SS later.

No arguing here in what GMC is, but unlike Pontiac also being rebadged Chevy’s, GMC made money hence why it survived.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by ChevyRules

Only unique models I’m recalling is the G8 and Solstice( Chevy didn’t have a version, but did have the Saturn Sky). Which the G8( GXP) became the Chevy SS later.

No arguing here in what GMC is, but unlike Pontiac also being rebadged Chevy’s, GMC made money hence why it survived.

The car known as the G8/SS was sold in Australia as a Holden Commodore VE/VF, and was sold from 2006 until 2018. It was also the one area that Chevy/GM royally screwed themselves on because if they had simply badged it an Impala SS it would have sold a lot better than the one they developed...

[Number 3]

Always thought the same. Put a V6 and decontent it a bit and it would have been a nice car. Problem really was that in 2014 through 17 the interior was pretty crappy with old tech. Also needed the Camaro 8 speed transmission turned 2,000 tpm driving on the highway with that 6 speed. But the SS was for NASCAR.

ISSUE WITH actual Impala was the didn’t let it have the better suspension. It was optional on the LaCrosse and standard on the Cadillac. So I always thought the TT from he Cadillac and it’s AWD with he better suspension would have been a great car. Maybe even worthy of SS. All the parts fit so it was mostly a choice to not do it.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 79 TransAm that never was

Thanks! Good read.
EV - Extended Vacation. You'll need an extended vacation if you travel more then 50 miles from your home in an EV.
EV's aren't about "saving the planet". EV's are all about taking away our freedom of movement.

It comes as no surprise to this former gm employee that they stopped listening to their customers when gm didn't even listen to it's employees!
gm has always been top heavy, but back in the day they still managed to put out products people liked. gm became lazy, gave up without trying, and blamed everyone but themselves for their poor sales.

Rather than fighting, gm just eliminated divisions driving those divisions loyal customers to their competition. Employees could see the problems a mile away, yet upper management chugged along, became yes men for bad ideas and then blamed all of their problems on their assembly workers.

I sold all of my gm stock the moment they went on their "downsizing" craze on the factory floor, while upper management stayed intact. Every employee on the floor knew that gm was on a path to bankruptcy. Killing the Camaro is just another example of what's really wrong at gm...gm has been run by imbeciles for far too long!

Have to challenge you on the EV front. I’m driving one right now and it has an easy 275 mile range. The only issue is access to fast DC charging. With a fast DC supercharger you can get 80% of that in 15 minutes. That and around he world there a lot of people investing and working to get more range and faster charging. So no one is trying to limit your freedom. Not sure where you get 50 miles. Even the crappy Nissan Leaf has 140.