[bharabs]

Price is a crucial factor for sure. You get a lot for what you pay, but then I would prefer to start at a lower base price and then add whatever I want as per my affordability.

Also, another factor is how much better are the 4 and 6 cylinder models compared to competitors? The volume is mostly in these models and I don't think these customers care much about performance. They would most certainly buy based on price.

To give you my perspective when I bought my Mustang V6, I actually was in a dilemma of whether I should buy a V6 accord or a Mustang and made the decision based on pricing as Mustang was almost comparable to Accord. I am planning to sell my Mustang and one of the buyers, who came to see my car was in the same dilemma too. And be rest assured, that crowd is most likely not even here to express their opinion.

[z28guy30]

This reminds me of the 90's when the Camaro outperformed the Mustang in every metric but was outsold 3 to 1. As long as the Camaro sticks around I am fine by it.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by bharabs

Price is a crucial factor for sure. You get a lot for what you pay, but then I would prefer to start at a lower base price and then add whatever I want as per my affordability.

Also, another factor is how much better are the 4 and 6 cylinder models compared to competitors? The volume is mostly in these models and I don't think these customers care much about performance. They would most certainly buy based on price.

To give you my perspective when I bought my Mustang V6, I actually was in a dilemma of whether I should buy a V6 accord or a Mustang and made the decision based on pricing as Mustang was almost comparable to Accord. I am planning to sell my Mustang and one of the buyers, who came to see my car was in the same dilemma too. And be rest assured, that crowd is most likely not even here to express their opinion.

I've tried to make that point but many don't understand that when it comes to a stylish V6 or even 4 cylinder coupe a FWD Accord (among other cars) is now in the consideration set. The Genesis is another car that falls into consideration if you remove the V8 from your list of wants.

[MEDISIN]

For perspective...

Fleet (i.e. Rental) Sales (%) YTD:
Mustang 31%
Challenger 24%
Camaro 8% (may be left over 2015's - I haven't seen a single 2016 for rent)

Average Transaction Price (ATP) after rebates and incentives
Mustang $34k
Challenger $36k
Camaro $38k

I don't have a breakdown by trim but GT350 and Hellcat's are included in those numbers whereas the 2SS is the most expensive Camaro currently available.

So yes Camaro is selling lower volume but a high percentage are retail sales and at a higher average price point than the competition.

[RagingHawk]

Pricing on the 4/6 cylinder models is too high. Most V6 models I see are in 33-37K range. Also the entry model being a turbo engine may have something to do with it.

The SS is priced fairly, and is an overall amazing car. Practicality is not important in a sports coupe car. Visibility isn't an issue either, for most people that opt for V8 trim. The design is very nice, especially with optioned out wheels. People need to see the car in person, I seen a hyper blue and bright yellow pair of SS models recently and fell in love. The car is very aggressive looking, but also separates itself from the competition. It has a more 'prestigious' look or appeal. It strikes you as a car being at a higher level than just American muscle, almost between American muscle and BMW M4 prestigious appeal.

The recent Challenger refresh also looks well, like the Mustang, their designs appeal to the average consumer base. I've noticed most that opt for a Mustang don't care for performance, it is the looks and interior style that won them over, along with with the affordability. Challengers on other hand, most people I know with Challengers have the performance SRT, Scat pack and R/T models. Camaro wise, I've seen mostly SS models.

So the Challenger and Camaro win over more performance oriented enthusiasts. Obviously the Challenger is tailored more to brute power and straight line performance, with classic muscle vibe. While the Camaro is for all around performance.

I like all three, but the Camaro is my most preferred. I like the direction GM took with the performance model.

Also ...there are no Mustang GT premium's being advertised for high 20's. I don't know where some people live, but in my area they are all selling for high 30's, mostly 39K-40K. And I'm not paying that money when I can get employee pricing with GM and a much better value in the Camaro.

[z28guy30]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

For perspective...

Fleet (i.e. Rental) Sales (%) YTD:
Mustang 31%
Challenger 24%
Camaro 8% (may be left over 2015's - I haven't seen a single 2016 for rent)

Average Transaction Price (ATP) after rebates and incentives
Mustang $34k
Challenger $36k
Camaro $38k

I don't have a breakdown by trim but GT350 and Hellcat's are included in those numbers whereas the 2SS is the most expensive Camaro currently available.

So yes Camaro is selling lower volume but a high percentage are retail sales and at a higher average price point than the competition.

Rental cars or not the Mustang is outselling the Challenger and Camaro both to the public also; however, I live on Oahu and will admit there are hundreds of S550 rental cars on the road. Mainly V6 models.

IMO The Camaro looks better and outperforms it's competition, but the 6th gen was not a drastic change in styling and I am sure there are people that are also turned off by the worthless back seat. I love my Camaro and will be holding on to it for a long time, but my teenage son is 6ft tall and his knees hit the back of the front seat and he has to duck his head while riding in the back.

[Commando16SS]

GM just announced incentives for July - 20% off MSRP for most vehicles...except Camaro.

Are these cars hitting their expectations to the point where they don't want to offer incentives?

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by Number 3

As one of the minority views here on visibility, it was noticeably better in the 5th Gen. But it's not just that one attribute. It's a smaller trunk, a smaller back seat. GM went to a smaller architecture to reap the HUGE performance gains, and they were BIG. But there were trade offs going to Alpha from Zeta. And if you want a size comparison, I could shoot a picture from my garage with our ATS and SS sitting side by side. Big difference in size.

No need for a picture. My dad has an ATS as well. I know all too well GM struggles with packaging for a given size of vehicle.

I've driven the 5th and 6th gen Camaro's( very quickly mind you). I loved the pre-refresh 5th gens looks and probably could live with the interior. But when I drove it at GM's Main street driving event( I believe that is what it was called), it left me unimpressed. Now it was an automatic SS so it only had the L99 that made 400 HP instead of the LS3. It felt heavy, quite a bit of body roll, etc. It could have been because I drove the Corvette right before it, but it didn't excite me. I understand the 1LE did fix a lot of the issues the regular SS had, but I never got the chance to drive one.

Now the 6th gen, it excites me. Which isn't a big surprise given the fact I love driving my dads ATS. I had a blast when I went to the dealer last month and test drove one with NPP, the 8 speed auto, and MRC. I don't use the rear seats much in my Aura( it is 9.5 years old and the rear seats look as they did when I bought it in 2006) so I don't mind that trade off. The visibility only has me concerned when backing up the vehicle. The one thing that does suck is the small trunk. While I wish I could get leather seats and nav with the 1SS, I don't mind paying for the 2SS either. Hopefully come next year, I will have been able to save enough money to pick up a 2017/2018 Camaro 2SS. Haven't driven a Mustang GT yet( plan to just to have a fair comparison), but my impressions of it seems to be the Mustang is more of a cruiser than performance oriented. The GT350 might tempt me, but it is out of my price range.

[aestil]

Originally Posted by z28guy30

Rental cars or not the Mustang is outselling the Challenger and Camaro both to the public also; however, I live on Oahu and will admit there are hundreds of S550 rental cars on the road. Mainly V6 models.

IMO The Camaro looks better and outperforms it's competition, but the 6th gen was not a drastic change in styling and I am sure there are people that are also turned off by the worthless back seat. I love my Camaro and will be holding on to it for a long time, but my teenage son is 6ft tall and his knees hit the back of the front seat and he has to duck his head while riding in the back.

The Mustang back seat is equally worthless.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Commando16SS

GM just announced incentives for July - 20% off MSRP for most vehicles...except Camaro.

Are these cars hitting their expectations to the point where they don't want to offer incentives?

Maybe. I think it would definitely send the wrong message to the market if they started discounting a brand new model 20%. Having to discount a car 20% means it is a failure, they need to move inventory to make room for new models or is it just priced wrong for the market.

[ChefBorOzzy]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

For perspective...

Fleet (i.e. Rental) Sales (%) YTD:
Mustang 31%
Challenger 24%
Camaro 8% (may be left over 2015's - I haven't seen a single 2016 for rent)

Average Transaction Price (ATP) after rebates and incentives
Mustang $34k
Challenger $36k
Camaro $38k

I don't have a breakdown by trim but GT350 and Hellcat's are included in those numbers whereas the 2SS is the most expensive Camaro currently available.

So yes Camaro is selling lower volume but a high percentage are retail sales and at a higher average price point than the competition.

Where do you get those numbers? I've looked before but couldn't find anything.

[Raven87]

This is deja vu...

[Marty McFlew]

Sales dropping like a brick. Challenger outsells Camaro. Overpriced!

[Marty McFlew]

Look at that tall red bar! Mustang is KING of Sales. Why!? Somebody tell me WHY!!!