11-04-2018, 11:52 PM | #29 | |
Big Crow
Drives: '13 ZL1 Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: California
Posts: 1,487
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But it isn't turning only that we are talking about. It is transmitting differing loads that also change direction and speed. More load, more friction. Did you not read my post? |
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11-04-2018, 11:52 PM | #30 | |
Drives: 2010 CGM 2SS/RS LS3 Swapped A6 Join Date: Sep 2016
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Most important, how much are you pushing on Uranus? Bu Dum Tss!
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2010 CGM Camaro 2SS LS3 Swapped A6 - GPI LS3 SS1 .647/.638, (224/237, 112 +4, 7º overlap) on CamMotion 8620 core, BTR Platinum .660" Dual Spring kit w/titanium retainers, CHE bronze trunnion upgrade, stock heads milled @ .015, Melling HV 10296 oil pump, TSP 1-7/8" long tube headers (W/Catless Off-road Pipes), Corsa Xtreme 3" Catback, GPI Ported/Rod Mod Intake, Stage 2 Ported Throttle Body, Vararam OTR CAI, Mike Norris Gen 2 catch can + GM 1LE clean side separator, 160º thermostat - Megan Racing adjustable coilovers (lowered 1.75"), MRR M017 10/11" wheels-Tuned by Ryan @ GPI
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11-05-2018, 06:44 AM | #31 | ||||
corner barstool sitter
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012
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That line of thinking is like saying it would take the same amount of force to drag a pallet across the shop floor with a couple of engines strapped to it as it would to push the same pallet across the same floor with only something light like a trunk lid sitting on top of it instead. Norm
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'08 GT coupe 5M (the occasional track toy)
'19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously) |
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11-05-2018, 12:07 PM | #32 |
Drives: 2014 2SS/RS Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Washington
Posts: 848
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Except what he is talking about is water pushing resistance on the hand or in comparison is the resistance the wind puts on the car. This has nothing to do with horsepower that the drive train is using up. There is no increased wind resistance in a Dyno room. This factor has an effect on terminal velocity though.
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2014 2SS/RS LS3/M6
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11-05-2018, 06:32 PM | #33 |
Big Crow
Drives: '13 ZL1 Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: California
Posts: 1,487
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Which weighs more a pound of feathers or a pound of lead
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11-06-2018, 12:26 AM | #34 | |
Drives: 2013 Summit White 2SS/1LE Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: SoCal
Posts: 118
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Using your analogy of a pallet being dragged across a shop floor with two dissimilar weights strapped to them is NOT what I was describing. I specifically mentioned using the same transmission and rear end assembly in both examples precisely so that it would keep that source of frictional loss in the assembly as a constant. I'm not saying that two different engines will have the same frictional losses in their respective rotating assemblies, I'm saying if those two engines (and my hypothetical electric test motor) were all mated to that same transmission and rear end assembly, that trans. and rear end would require the same amount of torque to turn them. That, in my mind means that a given transmission and rear end assembly should, at least in most cases, provide a constant factor of hp/torque loss when paired to a given source of twisting force. |
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11-06-2018, 06:54 AM | #35 | |
Drives: 2013 ZL1 Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 474
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I think you have to figure acceleration in somewhere. |
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11-06-2018, 07:12 AM | #36 | |||
corner barstool sitter
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012
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What you're still not getting is that the forces between the gear teeth when you're transmitting 400 HP through them is much higher than if you've only got 50 to work with. And power transmitted is where the majority of the friction losses are coming from. Very little power is needed to simply turn the gears, this being why you don't need to be Superman to turn the transmission or the differential over at low speed by hand (you're not working against much load, so you don't need to be very powerful). Quote:
One last try . . . if the absolute value of friction losses remained constant (like OP thought had to be the case), nobody over on M6G would be complaining about differential temperature warnings when they take their PP2 out to the track, there wouldn't be legal action involving GT350's that didn't get this cooling, and Camaros wouldn't have differential and transmission cooling systems either. Norm
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'19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously) |
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11-06-2018, 07:12 AM | #37 | |
Drives: the 2nd amendment home Join Date: May 2008
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The losses vary when you attempt to spin up that mass TO that speed at different acceleration rates.
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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin Last edited by Mr Twisty; 11-07-2018 at 05:42 AM. |
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