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Old 09-18-2009, 12:20 PM   #85
jmcbeth
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Originally Posted by RatedZ View Post
John, what is your opinion of your new SS on back roads? Are you going to be driving it to the meet on September 26th?
Dan,

I have driven it on back roads and I love the way it handles. We took all back roads when driving it home from Tom Henry. I would say it handles as well as my wife's BMW Z4 for the type of driving that I do. However, I probably don't drive it as aggressively as you might on back roads. I have no doubt that the Z4 would fair better in curves at high speed. However, the Camaro is MUCH more comfortable and gets much more attention.

It certainly handles way better than my 69 Zs, which weigh in at 3,500 lbs. The reasons are probably obvious: 21st century suspension, better steering, turning radius, etc.

I have also been thinking about your question and I am having a very hard time seeing how you can reasonably eliminate 450 lbs from this car.

Unfortunately, I may not make the meeting on the 26th.
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:29 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post


I declare this thread "FAIL" in every sense of the word. A perfect example of perception ruling reality...

If some of you are so deluded to think that weight is the only factor...and therefore it's a poorly handling pig because of it, then fine...enjoy your baseless opinion. I'm done.


And thank you for answering my questions, Rated Z. BUT...
#1...this car handles as well as many lighter sports cars out there...forgive me if I doubt you actually drove it around the corners you plan to do with the real car. The car is on rails.

#2...that IRS setup in the cobra Mustang was a joke, Rated Z, not to mention that the car did not comply to current saftey standards.

And #3...you CANNOT remove anywhere NEAR 500lbs and still daily-drive it. The saftey is built into the body...the structure, the IRS is bullet-proof, the engine is a "heavy" V8, and the transmission is heavier than others to handle it's outrageous power. The brakes are heavier than a standard cars because they can stop the car in a mere 104 FEET from 60mph...that's approaching supercar territory on factory brake pads and rotors. You CANNOT remove the radio, because it controls some functions of the car, and by removing the AC compressor, fluid and lines, you might save 75 lbs. You could probably take the front and rear impact bars off of the car...there's some 40-50lbs a piece, and you can replace the mufflers for another 10 lbs of weight per resonator. You can replace the wheels and rims with 18" skinny-spokes...maybe saving another 20 lbs total...

So...are you really going to put in all this effort just to add 25hp worth of performance and a negligible handling improvement?



Look, I appreciate where you're coming from...weight is bad, and this car has more than its share of it. But guess what? We can't do anything about it. There's no "weight compartment" on the car that you can just empty out. It's all built in to provide you with class-leading saftey, style, performance, and VALUE.

I reccomend you call Pedders to modify the suspension, install an intake and a tune, and you'll accomplish MORE than your performance goals for far less $$ and headaches.

Otherwise, you're just trying to catch the wind......
The weight diminishes the fuel economy. I would like to see a lighter Camaro in the future capable of 35 mpg (highway).
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:38 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by All-Or-Nothing View Post
LMAO.........the car is a pig. The only thing saving it is the new horsepower. Get mad if you want but without this new increased horsepower you all would be crying. 3900 is a pig for a Pony car. Just face it.
THANK YOU. THANK YOU! Reality sucks, and apparently, that's what I'm having a problem accepting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post


I declare this thread "FAIL" in every sense of the word. A perfect example of perception ruling reality...

If some of you are so deluded to think that weight is the only factor...and therefore it's a poorly handling pig because of it, then fine...enjoy your baseless opinion. I'm done.


And thank you for answering my questions, Rated Z. BUT...
#1...this car handles as well as many lighter sports cars out there...forgive me if I doubt you actually drove it around the corners you plan to do with the real car. The car is on rails.

#2...that IRS setup in the cobra Mustang was a joke, Rated Z, not to mention that the car did not comply to current saftey standards.

And #3...you CANNOT remove anywhere NEAR 500lbs and still daily-drive it. The saftey is built into the body...the structure, the IRS is bullet-proof, the engine is a "heavy" V8, and the transmission is heavier than others to handle it's outrageous power. The brakes are heavier than a standard cars because they can stop the car in a mere 104 FEET from 60mph...that's approaching supercar territory on factory brake pads and rotors. You CANNOT remove the radio, because it controls some functions of the car, and by removing the AC compressor, fluid and lines, you might save 75 lbs. You could probably take the front and rear impact bars off of the car...there's some 40-50lbs a piece, and you can replace the mufflers for another 10 lbs of weight per resonator. You can replace the wheels and rims with 18" skinny-spokes...maybe saving another 20 lbs total...

So...are you really going to put in all this effort just to add 25hp worth of performance and a negligible handling improvement?



Look, I appreciate where you're coming from...weight is bad, and this car has more than its share of it. But guess what? We can't do anything about it. There's no "weight compartment" on the car that you can just empty out. It's all built in to provide you with class-leading saftey, style, performance, and VALUE.

I reccomend you call Pedders to modify the suspension, install an intake and a tune, and you'll accomplish MORE than your performance goals for far less $$ and headaches.

Otherwise, you're just trying to catch the wind......
Ok, to use your terminology, your post is a complete FAIL. That's fine that the IRS on the '03-'04 Cobra was a complete joke, but a 3900 lb "pony car" that weighs as much as a 1971 Caprice is the punch-line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrIcky View Post
In the OP's defense, I can't believe how quickly some of you get offended by the slightest comment. It's like you've somehow directly linked your personal ego's to your car. The OP doesn't appear to be a ricer owner by his avatar message. His concern is legit and others have brought it up- they just didn't use the word "pig" so no one cried.

Also there's a lot of confusion on the difference between "grip" and "handling".

But to the OP, 500lbs is alot- you would struggle to hit that. I'd just do the wheels and tires and the mufflers (because I'd do those anyway).
Thanks for the defense. Okay, reviewing everything, maybe 500 lbs is too much, and I did view Chevy's website, and the 1SS was rated at 3850 lbs. Maybe it would be possible to cut...300 lbs?

And also, thanks for noticing I'm not a ricer. Apparently, my signature didn't quite give that away. That's great that some of these people are "stuck on GM" or whatever, but I'm not. I enjoy a variety of performance machines, and as long as it's either RWD or AWD, I'm there. I wouldn't drag-race an STi, the same as I wouldn't rally a Camaro. Apparently, it's a mortal sin on this forum to have a respect and admiration for cars other than those manufactured by GM or with something other than a RWD drivetrain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcbeth View Post
Dan,

I have driven it on back roads and I love the way it handles. We took all back roads when driving it home from Tom Henry. I would say it handles as well as my wife's BMW Z4 for the type of driving that I do. However, I probably don't drive it as aggressively as you might on back roads. I have no doubt that the Z4 would fair better in curves at high speed. However, the Camaro is MUCH more comfortable and gets much more attention.

It certainly handles way better than my 69 Zs, which weigh in at 3,500 lbs. The reasons are probably obvious: 21st century suspension, better steering, turning radius, etc.

I have also been thinking about your question and I am having a very hard time seeing how you can reasonably eliminate 450 lbs from this car.

Unfortunately, I may not make the meeting on the 26th.
Okay, maybe I was "jumping ahead of myself" with wanting to cut 450 lbs out of this car. I guess I'd just like something that I can lighten a tad.

Someone asked, "What sort of power/weight ratio are you looking to achieve?" I'd like to whittle it down to around 7.8 pounds for every horse. I'm sure I'm going to get more than a few "get a supercharger" responses, and while I can do that, a supercharger isn't going to lower the weight or help me achieve better handling.
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:45 PM   #88
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without trying to upset die hard loyalists on this forum...

at the end of the day the car you might be looking for is next year's mustang with the 5.0 coyote engine...i don't know how much weight it will add to the gt but it's speculated to come in around 400 horsepower

all i know is that i love my SS and couldn't have asked for more in my first brand new car

that's my 2 cents
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:54 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RatedZ View Post
a supercharger isn't going to lower the weight or help me achieve better handling.

Suspension work will get you there but you keep seeming to ignore that point.......
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Old 09-18-2009, 12:58 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Disclaimer is this:

I do not intend to offend or harrang you in any way.

Now, though...I would like you to answer a few questions for me.

#1. Have you driven the car, yet?
#2. What do you mean by functional?
and #3....is not a question;

I challenge you to find a new sports car on the PLANET...that has the following:

IRS
400+hp
4 seats
and DOESN'T weigh somewhere between 3700-4200lbs.

I think you'll find that you cannot. For the price range? The Camaro actually comes out on the lighter-side of the spectrum. If you can beat that challenge, then you can call it a pig and fat all you like, otherwise, it is an inaccurate statement to make.

Dragoneye......


Your wisdom far exceeds your age in real years. I'm always amazed at your reasoning.

God Bless you.
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:03 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RatedZ View Post
[SIZE="5"]...
Someone asked, "What sort of power/weight ratio are you looking to achieve?" I'd like to whittle it down to around 7.8 pounds for every horse. I'm sure I'm going to get more than a few "get a supercharger" responses, and while I can do that, a supercharger isn't going to lower the weight or help me achieve better handling.
What people keep trying to tell you is that weight reduction is not the way to improve handling or acceleration on this car. There's simply not that much fat to trim. If you want better handling and acceleration, you need to look at upgrading your suspension and your horsepower.
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:09 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyCarlo View Post
What people keep trying to tell you is that weight reduction is not the way to improve handling or acceleration on this car. There's simply not that much fat to trim. If you want better handling and acceleration, you need to look at upgrading your suspension and your horsepower.
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:10 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post

I challenge you to find a new sports car on the PLANET...that has the following:

IRS
400+hp
4 seats
and DOESN'T weigh somewhere between 3700-4200lbs.

I think you'll find that you cannot. For the price range? The Camaro actually comes out on the lighter-side of the spectrum. If you can beat that challenge, then you can call it a pig and fat all you like, otherwise, it is an inaccurate statement to make.
I missed this one earlier.....

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Old 09-18-2009, 01:13 PM   #94
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This car is a lil on the heavy side, but it handles well for what it is.
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:20 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by MrIcky View Post
In the OP's defense, I can't believe how quickly some of you get offended by the slightest comment. It's like you've somehow directly linked your personal ego's to your car. The OP doesn't appear to be a ricer owner by his avatar message. His concern is legit and others have brought it up- they just didn't use the word "pig" so no one cried.
And in the defense of the people who were offended, we're not obligated to help trolls make a silk purse out of a pigs ear. If a guy calls a car a pig, common sense would tell you he doesn't like it and should buy something else. Which is exactly what most of the posters suggested.

Now, if he's flexible on the weight, someone can probably help him.
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:24 PM   #96
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Someone said something along the lines of "I want it to weigh less and get better fuel economy" So do we. It's that CAFE thing.

How to reduce weight......

well........we could use thinner sheetmetal - but then you get the 'oil-can' effect each time you wash or polish it -- so we didn't.


We could use lots of Titanium as we do with a Corvette -- but that raises the price -- so we didn't.


We could get rid of a lot of sound dampening........but that makes for a noisy interior (kinda like the Z06) -- so we didn't.


We could have made the seats lighter and smaller -- but that would make them more uncomfortable on longer trips and it would cost more (in some cases) -- so we didn't.

There are any number of things we could do...........


...............but let's now look at reality, shall we?

If we want this Camaro to succeed - it has to excel in a lot of areas -- refinement (while not losing its heritage of overall performance -- quietness at 70mph -- interiors that allow you to drive it from coast to coast without feeling like you did -- a solid feel to the body and sheetmetal -- absence of 'flutter' at speed -- IRS -- the list is quite lengthy.

RatedZ -- you may not feel that the above is important -- and that is certainly your perogative. However, those looking for reducing weight are in the very small minority......the majority of owners want a Camaro that's more refined. (go read any major Camaro site from 1996-2002 -- and you'll see what I mean.

So -- yes, you could take out weight - but I won't even start to guess what should be removed --

I'd suggest Pedders -- they have a selection of suspension pieces that I believe would take care of the 'feeling' that you get from the Camaro.

One last thing: As you know: we never rest. Remember when the C5 was the 'end-all?' - and then there was the Z06 - and then there was the C6 -- and then there was the C6-Z06 -- and then there was the ZR1.......

.........we are far from finished.................
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:36 PM   #97
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Oink Oink

I've had mine (2SS/RS LS3) for a couple of months now and it handles decently for a stock car. You can feel its wieghtyness when you're throwing it around the back roads but isn't it really intended to be a muscle car? I'd be willing to bet you could install some moderately priced suspension mods and balance out the that heavy feel. I wouldn't want to go overboard with tightning it up because then you end up with a very uncomfortable ride. Personally I like the feel because it doesn't feel like its going to come apart when stretching it out.

I agree some tend to get a little harsh however the OP was a little harsh in his opening salvo so I guess you should expect it. Call it what it is, a heavy car, and then ask for thoughts and the responses would have been reduced to positive input... JMHO
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Old 09-18-2009, 01:39 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
.........we are far from finished.................

Sooooo whats in store for the Camaro?
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