[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I have an opinion, but nothing based on fact.

I think it will be around and will have some degree of electrification. No real facts to base that on, but playing “King for a Day” with the following inputs...

• With C8, Corvette is going up market. Not everybody is going to travel along with them. That leaves a lot of room for Camaro variants
• By 2025, no matter who is in office, automakers will need to already be in the mode of implementing a new round of fuel economy technologies
• Mustang Hybrid will have been in the market a couple years
• Unless there are more Cadillac models coming to LGR, GM will need the volume support in that plant

Now, having said all that, GM Product Development people and GM Product Planning are the ones who will make the decisions and I would expect that they have not made a decision one way or the other. They may have preferences, but I doubt the decisions have been fully studied yet.

You believe we will see a hybrid Mustang in the S550 lineup? Reason I ask is there are articles online, including from Road & Track, that suggest Ford is taking the S550 to 2026.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...n-s650-rumors/

In my mind, both Ford and GM have no 7th Gen plans on the horizon...putting them in the same "see how it goes" speculation, especially with an election coming next year (no to get too political, but a lot of the EPA and regs are policy and leadership based, as alluded to in your interview).

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Different guy, different hair.

After watching the YT video, you could pass for my older brother...hair and all, lol!! I'd be willing to bet that at just a first glance some of my friends would actually for a split second think that was me on that show, LOL!!

[protovack]

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/06/...comment-831404

The Plan All Along
In speaking to various sources familiar with future GM plans, we weren’t able to get a clear consensus on the matter, while official requests for comment from GM/Chevrolet resulted in non-answers that diverted attention to the 2020 Camaro changes, including the new LT1 trim level. Luckily, we can turn to other forms of information to get a better idea of what’s going on beyond the headlines.

In talking to sources who spoke to us on the basis of anonymity, we got a uniform message that the current, sixth-generation Chevrolet Camaro will, in fact, be discontinued at the end of the 2022 calendar year. With the gen-six Camaro launched for the 2016 model year, an end of life in 2023 would give the mainstream sports car an eight-year-long lifespan. According to sources, a seven- to eight-year-long run has been the plan all along. In other words, the sixth-gen model was always supposed to live until the 2022-2023 timeframe. The more pertinent question is: what’s coming after?

The Platform Conundrum
Over the past few months, GM/Chevrolet started initial development work on the seventh-generation Camaro on the Alpha 2 platform, which is a slightly progressed version of the first-gen Alpha chassis used by the sixth-gen Camaro (the Cadillac CT5 uses Alpha 2). Our sources tell us that the decision to use A2 for the seventh-gen Camaro was a decision that was frowned upon. That’s because Alpha – no matter the generation – is considered a “legacy architecture” that does factor into GM’s plans to have the entire vehicle portfolio riding on four highly-flexible vehicle sets by 2025. Here’s where things start to get really interesting.

General Motors VSS Vehicle Set Strategy 004 - Convergence from Platforms

The only GM vehicle set capable of supporting a car like the Camaro is VSS-R (Vehicle Strategy Set – Rear drive). GM is planning to use VSS-R to underpin all future rear-drive cars (as opposed to SUVs or trucks) with a longitudinal powertrain orientation. The problem is VSS-R is the last GM vehicle set to go into production, and is not scheduled to launch until the 2025 calendar year on the second-generation Cadillac CT6.

And therein lies the problem: the sixth-gen Camaro is scheduled to end production in 2023, while the only platform vehicle set that could theoretically underpin the seventh-gen model won’t be ready for another 18-24 months, according to our sources. Faced with those circumstances, GM explored two strategies for the Camaro program:

Develop the seventh-gen Camaro on VSS-R, while either discontinuing the current sixth-gen Camaro or extending its lifespan by a year or two, or
Take the Camaro in a whole different direction, reimagining the Camaro entirely
It would appear as though The General has instead elected for the second option.

Reimagining An Icon
GM has made it crystal clear that its vision for the future is electric, with zero emissions (along with zero crashes and zero congestion). The automaker plans to roll out an entire onslaught of electric cars in the next few years. Despite the fact that the very few people are buying EVs at the moment, The General is pushing full steam ahead to bring to market 20 new electric cars by 2023. In fact, we recently learned that GM has doubled the resources allocated to the initiative, like assigning Camaro chief engineer, Al Oppenheiser, to lead GM’s electric vehicle program.

GM announces 20 new electric vehicles - Chevrolet Bolt
GM announces plans to introduce 20 new electric vehicles by 2022

Part of GM’s electric initiative is a new, all-electric vehicle platform that we can currently refer to as BEV3. The architecture is being developed to be ever-flexible. It will be capable of supporting all kinds of body styles and all three drivetrain configurations – front-wheel-drive, rear-wheel-drive, and all-wheel-drive. In fact, it’s that very flexibility that GM is hoping will enable it to reach the scale necessary to become the first automaker to turn a profit on EVs. It’s also worth noting that BEV3 will incorporate elements of VSS-R, which is what led us to report earlier that the next-gen Camaro will ride on that vehicle set.

Either way, our sources tell us that a two-door mainstream sports car for Chevrolet is part of future GM electric vehicle plans. That much was even foreshadowed by GM itself in a 2017 slide, above, announcing the EV strategy. Whether that vehicle will actually wear the iconic Camaro name, or be called something else entirely, is currently unknown.

2018 Chevrolet Camaro Redline Edition exterior 008 Camaro logo

So while all of the above is still subject to change, last we heard, GM has both canceled and not canceled the seventh-gen Camaro, while refocusing its attention to another project that will completely reimagine the mainstream sports car. We’ll update you as we learn more. In the meantime, subscribe to GM Authority for more Camaro news, Chevrolet news, and around-the-clock GM news coverage.


Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/06/...#ixzz5sB78jCSo

[Gunkk]

That’s all fine and dandy but there isn’t enough lithium, cobalt and the other rare earth elements available on the planet to “electrify” the global automotive market in 2025.

The Chinese threatened to cut off supply of a few of these elements a couple weeks ago and the rest of the planet said “Oh $#!t”!!

Liquid hydrocarbon fuels will still be required as an energy storage solution for at least another 25-30 years.

Flexibility with energy storage will be the single most important strategy critical to the success of automotive manufacturers for the next two decades.

[protovack]

I agree. Whatever happens, it's just nice to see some inside sources telling us that GM remains committed to a mainstream sports coupe (whatever the power plant is).

[KarFan]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

That’s all fine and dandy but there isn’t enough lithium, cobalt and the other rare earth elements available on the planet to “electrify” the global automotive market in 2025.

The Chinese threatened to cut off supply of a few of these elements a couple weeks ago and the rest of the planet said “Oh $#!t”!!

Liquid hydrocarbon fuels will still be required as an energy storage solution for at least another 25-30 years.

Flexibility with energy storage will be the single most important strategy critical to the success of automotive manufacturers for the next two decades.

Yes and bottom line until EV's are competitive on cost and range, infrastructure. There won't be the dramatic switch in NA. Not to mention the advancements in IC engines. Energy storage is right. And unless something changes on the battery front IC engines will be here for a while.

As for Camaro it still has a future under the C8 in the market and IC powered, maybe electric assist for likely another full generation.

[AlphaDream]

Seems like the waters have been muddied on the Camaro7 termination. I'd like to cut through the corporate buzzword BS like "delayed until further notice."

Main points:

• GM planned an Alpha-2 Camaro.
• Development of an Alpha-2 Camaro was underway, with continuation of the "chopped look" according to sources from within GM (via GMinsider discussion and other sources).
• GM then halted development and disbanded the engineering team.

Conclusion:

If the Camaro6, like the Camaro5 before it, were outselling the Mustang then an Alpha-2 Camaro would still be in development.

Other speculation:

• CAFE uncertainty may have been the last straw (yet the CT4/5 and C8 development were inexplicably unaffected by this uncertainty).
• GM may eventually do a VSS-R sport coupe after 2025.
• A VSS-R sport coupe may or may not be called a "Camaro" and it may or may not be an EV.

[cellsafemode]

from the article, it sounds like they think the camaro is likely to be the high performance electric offering on the BEV3 platform instead of VSS-R.

I'm all for that. Get the camaro alll electric before your competition. Just hope it's not too locked down with anti-right to repair nonsense.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by AlphaDream

Seems like the waters have been muddied on the Camaro7 termination. I'd like to cut through the corporate buzzword BS like "delayed until further notice."

Main points:

• GM planned an Alpha-2 Camaro.
• Development of an Alpha-2 Camaro was underway, with continuation of the "chopped look" according to sources from within GM (via GMinsider discussion and other sources).
• GM then halted development and disbanded the engineering team.

Conclusion:

If the Camaro6, like the Camaro5 before it, were outselling the Mustang then an Alpha-2 Camaro would still be in development.

Other speculation:

• CAFE uncertainty may have been the last straw (yet the CT4/5 and C8 development were inexplicably unaffected by this uncertainty).
• GM may eventually do a VSS-R sport coupe after 2025.
• A VSS-R sport coupe may or may not be called a "Camaro" and it may or may not be an EV.

Why would the Camaro have to outsell the Mustang for them to have continued development?

[IOMCamaroSS]

Hypothetically, would a 2 year absence while waiting for VSS-R be bad for Camaro? Possibly build some excitement (which seems to be lacking currently for the general public) for the new car in 2025 with new powertrain options including electric? Or is it better for them to keep building the car on Alpha until the new platform comes out? With Alpha 2 already being used, would they even consider producing anything on the Alpha platform that far out?

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

from the article, it sounds like they think the camaro is likely to be the high performance electric offering on the BEV3 platform instead of VSS-R.

I'm all for that. Get the camaro alll electric before your competition. Just hope it's not too locked down with anti-right to repair nonsense.

Going all electric with ANYTHING before the infrastructure to support all electric exists widely is a terrible idea. I live in a townhouse with my SS in the parking lot a few houses down. There are no charging stations in the parking lot, and I can't just go stringing extension cords along other people's property to where my car sits (never mind that would be 120 volts), assuming some kid doesn't decide to be a wise guy and unplug one after I hit the sack. What am I supposed to do in this all electric future you keep promoting?

That is, other than be taxed out the nose for an all new infrastructure to replace the perfectly serviceable existing one (be it just in my townhouse community or in the whole region/state/country - but probably all of the above, all at once!), which only makes getting a new electric performance car that much more difficult.

Also, even for those who do have the infrastructure (or a garage where they can conveniently install a 240V charger - for added cost), going ALL electric costs sales to those for whom part of the charm of such a car is a snarling V8 under the hood.

An electric OPTION is fine (being one of those old fashioned - even as a millennial - types, I wouldn't get one myself even if I had a garage, but I wouldn't deny others the nontraditional option of one), but this "all" stuff is a recipe for making something like the Camaro even less of a sales success.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by Lazerbrainz2k3

Going all electric with ANYTHING before the infrastructure to support all electric exists widely is a terrible idea. I live in a townhouse with my SS in the parking lot a few houses down. There are no charging stations in the parking lot, and I can't just go stringing extension cords along other people's property to where my car sits (never mind that would be 120 volts), assuming some kid doesn't decide to be a wise guy and unplug one after I hit the sack. What am I supposed to do in this all electric future you keep promoting?

That is, other than be taxed out the nose for an all new infrastructure to replace the perfectly serviceable existing one (be it just in my townhouse community or in the whole region/state/country - but probably all of the above, all at once!), which only makes getting a new electric performance car that much more difficult.

Also, even for those who do have the infrastructure (or a garage where they can conveniently install a 240V charger - for added cost), going ALL electric costs sales to those for whom part of the charm of such a car is a snarling V8 under the hood.

An electric OPTION is fine (being one of those old fashioned - even as a millennial - types, I wouldn't get one myself even if I had a garage, but I wouldn't deny others the nontraditional option of one), but this "all" stuff is a recipe for making something like the Camaro even less of a sales success.

Not just the infrastructure, but the raw material supply capacity as well. I pulled some numbers for sh!ts-n-g!ggles just now...

Nevermind "all".... to get to just "half" the mined supply rate in kilograms per year of lithium would need to grow seven fold and that's with zero lithium used for phones, computers and other consumer electronics, or electric lawn equipment...

And here's something to think about... if "all" cars were BEVs and 100% of all lithium was allocated only for use for cars, the entire planet's lithium reserves world could only sustain production for 14 years.

So we can rest assured that there will still be plenty of liquid-hydrocarbon-powered Camaro's and other cars available as playtoys at least for the rest of our lives... and likely forever.

[mlee]

So if you want to hear the story straight from the Author.

The Camaro Show interviewed Manny from Muscle Cars & Trucks.

https://camaroshow.com/camaro-show-2...ure-of-camaro/

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

Not just the infrastructure, but the raw material supply capacity as well. I pulled some numbers for sh!ts-n-g!ggles just now...

Nevermind "all".... to get to just "half" the mined supply rate in kilograms per year of lithium would need to grow seven fold and that's with zero lithium used for phones, computers and other consumer electronics, or electric lawn equipment...

And here's something to think about... if "all" cars were BEVs and 100% of all lithium was allocated only for use for cars, the entire planet's lithium reserves world could only sustain production for 14 years.

So we can rest assured that there will still be plenty of liquid-hydrocarbon-powered Camaro's and other cars available as playtoys at least for the rest of our lives... and likely forever.

Rest of our lives? Forever? Lol

BMW just gave the diesel 20 years and the ICE 30.

Solid state batteries are in the works and would invalidate your timeline as well.

There are over 200 million ICE vehicles in the US alone. Replacing all of them, assuming we went 100% EVs tomorrow in new production it would be 20 years before they were all off the road.

But that is not forever. If you are in your 20s you will see the end of ICEs as we know them.