[samurai]

Originally Posted by mlee

So if you want to hear the story straight from the Author.

The Camaro Show interviewed Manny from Muscle Cars & Trucks.

https://camaroshow.com/camaro-show-2...ure-of-camaro/

As a summary, he basically confirms everything that GMauthority got in their article:

• 7th Gen is not cancelled, only delayed/shelved/whatever you want to call it
• 7th Gen is not coming to Alpha 2
• The author is 100% sure about source of his news

[AZCamaroFan]

i just wish i had a dollar...or a penny... for every idiot that's done their own youtube video based on that report.

[Michael2000]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

Not just the infrastructure, but the raw material supply capacity as well. I pulled some numbers for sh!ts-n-g!ggles just now...

Nevermind "all".... to get to just "half" the mined supply rate in kilograms per year of lithium would need to grow seven fold and that's with zero lithium used for phones, computers and other consumer electronics, or electric lawn equipment...

And here's something to think about... if "all" cars were BEVs and 100% of all lithium was allocated only for use for cars, the entire planet's lithium reserves world could only sustain production for 14 years.

So we can rest assured that there will still be plenty of liquid-hydrocarbon-powered Camaro's and other cars available as playtoys at least for the rest of our lives... and likely forever.

Great spreadsheet! Definitely some things to think about.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by samurai

As a summary, he basically confirms everything that GMauthority got in their article:

• 7th Gen is not cancelled, only delayed/shelved/whatever you want to call it
• 7th Gen is not coming to Alpha 2
• The author is 100% sure about source of his news

Exactly, why I posted it here.

He was with GMauthority for many years and recently left and started this one.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Rest of our lives? Forever? Lol

BMW just gave the diesel 20 years and the ICE 30.

Solid state batteries are in the works and would invalidate your timeline as well.

There are over 200 million ICE vehicles in the US alone. Replacing all of them, assuming we went 100% EVs tomorrow in new production it would be 20 years before they were all off the road.

But that is not forever. If you are in your 20s you will see the end of ICEs as we know them.

BMW is German. They import 100% of their hydrocarbon fuel, a huge drain on their economy so they have a much greater incentive to pay huge sums for finite supplies of rare earth electric storage elements.

You just valided my point on the impossibility of using lithium-based electric storage for all vehicles.

Ever witness, or drive in the midst of a large scale hurricane evacuation? 5 million vehicles all running out of fuel at 300-500 miles. Every pipeline at max and every fuel tanker truck within 1500 miles pressed into 24/7 service. Even then 90% of fuel stations are bone dry, and that’s before the storm hits and cuts off power. Now try to recharge all those same vehicles as electric at ~250-300 miles. You can’t carry a jerry can of spare electric power for your Tesla.

There will always be other solutions to electric, and those solutions will include liquid based hydrocarbon fuels.

And no, while I’d love to go back 30 years and repeat my twenties in the middle of the modern muscle car horsepower wars, I’m content with where I am.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by mlee

Exactly, why I posted it here.

He was with GMauthority for many years and recently left and started this one.

Yeah, thanks, Mike.


He backs down pretty hard in that podcast from the third sentence in his article, which says:

At the very least, this means that there’s going to be some gap years, again.

Much more likely that he 6th gen will just be stretched out a bit more.

[mlee]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

Yeah, thanks, Mike.


He backs down pretty hard in that podcast from the third sentence in his article, which says:



Much more likely that he 6th gen will just be stretched out a bit more.

Yup,,, you are correct. This whole thing has really been expected for a while.
No reason to move on to 7th Gen until we get a Z/28...

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by mlee

Yup,,, you are correct. This whole thing has really been expected for a while.
No reason to move on to 7th Gen until we get a Z/28...

As long as that Z/28 is a AWD Hybrid that would completely shame the GT500 and its dinosaur technology in every way on any road type, it would raise a huge amount of interest in the 2025 Camaro .

[IOMCamaroSS]

Originally Posted by mlee

So if you want to hear the story straight from the Author.

The Camaro Show interviewed Manny from Muscle Cars & Trucks.

https://camaroshow.com/camaro-show-2...ure-of-camaro/

Attachment 993579

Welp, there’s 55 minutes of my life I’ll never get back.

Originally Posted by samurai

As a summary, he basically confirms everything that GMauthority got in their article:

• 7th Gen is not cancelled, only delayed/shelved/whatever you want to call it
• 7th Gen is not coming to Alpha 2
• The author is 100% sure about source of his news

• Author has colossal ego based off a topic that’s mostly speculation.

[Smokin19]

All this talk about EV's taking over all the ICE cars on the road is BS! It might be fine for around town but, how about a long road trip? Do you see any outlets for charging cars at motels or anywhere else for that matter. There would need to be a whole new infrastructure across the entire country to support EV's.

Do you see any electric companies expanding the grid to support this? Making the EV's is one thing but, the dollar cost to build and support the infrastructure is not there and surely not in the next 20 years. Do you see any new power plants being built? Power plants takes years to design and build. Bottom line, just where do you think all this electricity is going to come from? We are right now at the limit of what the grid can handle. When the next brown out comes and it will be a big one, then and only then will people realize you can't put the cart before the horse.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

BMW is German. They import 100% of their hydrocarbon fuel, a huge drain on their economy so they have a much greater incentive to pay huge sums for finite supplies of rare earth electric storage elements.

You just valided my point on the impossibility of using lithium-based electric storage for all vehicles.

Ever witness, or drive in the midst of a large scale hurricane evacuation? 5 million vehicles all running out of fuel at 300-500 miles. Every pipeline at max and every fuel tanker truck within 1500 miles pressed into 24/7 service. Even then 90% of fuel stations are bone dry, and that’s before the storm hits and cuts off power. Now try to recharge all those same vehicles as electric at ~250-300 miles. You can’t carry a jerry can of spare electric power for your Tesla.

There will always be other solutions to electric, and those solutions will include liquid based hydrocarbon fuels.

And no, while I’d love to go back 30 years and repeat my twenties in the middle of the modern muscle car horsepower wars, I’m content with where I am.

LOL, not sure how I validated your point.

I don't think "known" lithium supplies are any more fixed than the worlds oil reserves. They discover more every day.

Also BMW's comments have very little to do with Germany being and oil importer (thank God or WWII may have had a different ending). They sell huge volumes of cars and SUVs in the US and China as well the ROTW.

I'm very happy you are content where you are. But it's changing whether we like it or not.

Oh and you don't even touch my concern which is what do we do with the batteries when they are dead. In fact I'm only slightly frightened with what happens to the simple batteries in today's cars. For those that say recycle, the last report I saw was that was financially upside down.

And for those that think GM is ahead of infrastructure if they make an EV Camaro?

https://electrek.co/2019/05/28/gm-ev-charging-network/

That too is happening whether we like it or not.

All that being said, GM needs to do something wildly different with a Gen7 if they resurrect any such program or nameplate. At a minimum it will either go for lower volume more profitable design and replace the front engine Corvette. Corvette is profitable at sub 20,000 unit sales. But that's also why it's composite not steel. Or they make it a more approachable coupe. As we've discussed, we don't have sales for male/female. My guess is (an educated one) women are less interested in "BAD A$$ 'MURICAN MUSCLE". Or, simply take in a totally new direction. A direction that invites even Californians to be interested. A direction that make Elon Musk go, "holy crap!!!". GM has better engineering that Tesla.

No clue, but anything other than delayed is bad. Cancelled? Shelved? That means no future. They'll just run out the Gen6 until it's not worth assigning engineers to keep it going (sustaining activities).

And likely this is all because someone who did know something talked to someone who shouldn't. Is it true? Half true? Opinion? Don't know.

But I'm guessing the Camaro is currently selling half or less of the business plan it was based on. And when leadership probably went for capital appropriations (that would be now for a 2022/23 program) they were probably denied as the current car was a financial disaster.

Also from a historical point, about 8 years ago GM launched a DUD of a Malibu. The response? Get every one aligned on a near impossible 18 month pull ahead of the NG Malibu. For the Camaro that does not seem to be the case.

Could all be BS, a ruse or a simple distraction. But based on what we know, it's not positive.

[bignaz]

Originally Posted by Smokin19

All this talk about EV's taking over all the ICE cars on the road is BS! It might be fine for around town but, how about a long road trip? Do you see any outlets for charging cars at motels or anywhere else for that matter. There would need to be a whole new infrastructure across the entire country to support EV's.

Do you see any electric companies expanding the grid to support this? Making the EV's is one thing but, the dollar cost to build and support the infrastructure is not there and surely not in the next 20 years. Do you see any new power plants being built? Power plants takes years to design and build. Bottom line, just where do you think all this electricity is going to come from? We are right now at the limit of what the grid can handle. When the next brown out comes and it will be a big one, then and only then will people realize you can't put the cart before the horse.

Ev's are a novelty I don't care what people say. Charging and battery tech is still years away from becoming viable for a large percentage of the us. I typically drive 40 miles to work each way. And every other month I do a 800 mile trip and I drive straight through and only make one stop for gas. I'm not sitting there for 45min + if there is not a line to charge. I can fill my tank in under 5 min so unless I can charge the car in under 15 min I won't even look at electric because it's inferior.


Ev's are years and years away from becoming a viable option for most of the drivers. They still have to build up the electric grid, then build a charging infastructor, Advance charging tech as well as advance battery tech. It's just not there and won't be for years.


Some places have a infastructor for charging. But your average person is not going to want to plan trips based on where chargers are located.



Scotty Kramer said that the Camaro is dead! It must be true because he's the guru of cars. I didn't watch the video YouTube thinks I should watch the idiot so I just seen his typical clickbate title.



Personally I'm happy they delayed the Camaro. The Camaro team has dropped the ball and the 2019 some people have to be removed from that team asap. I hope they are restructuring the team and planning for the gen 7 to be a true new generation and the next evaluation of the Camaro. I think when they came out and said they were listening to us it was a wake up call for them and I hope we see more options as well as more performance.



Also people crying about visibility need to put the phone down and drive. Visibility why not the best is not horrible. It's a Camaro not a mini van. I have zero problems with visability.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Smokin19

All this talk about EV's taking over all the ICE cars on the road is BS! It might be fine for around town but, how about a long road trip? Do you see any outlets for charging cars at motels or anywhere else for that matter. There would need to be a whole new infrastructure across the entire country to support EV's.

Do you see any electric companies expanding the grid to support this? Making the EV's is one thing but, the dollar cost to build and support the infrastructure is not there and surely not in the next 20 years. Do you see any new power plants being built? Power plants takes years to design and build. Bottom line, just where do you think all this electricity is going to come from? We are right now at the limit of what the grid can handle. When the next brown out comes and it will be a big one, then and only then will people realize you can't put the cart before the horse.

You really need to talk to a Tesla owner.

With the Supercharger infrastructure Tesla has in place, owners REGULARLY take long trips. A guy who used to work for me just got a Tesla Model 3. If you plan for a half hour snack or coffee break (Not a huge amount more than a gas stop for use with fill-up, potty break and a Diet Mountain Dew purchase) they can go long distances with no issues at all.

You and I would find that to be a bit restrictive, at least I know I do, but for the EV crowd, at least the Tesla crowd, they have that covered.

And yes, if you are an EV owner, you know where the other chargers are. Many hotels actually do have charging stations. You can plan an entire trip around it. It's just currently not as easy as pulling over at the next off ramp for a gas station. But for the EV enthusiasts these are no longer hurdles, it's part of the experience. And this is getting better every day.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by bignaz

Ev's are a novelty I don't care what people say. Charging and battery tech is still years away from becoming viable for a large percentage of the us. I typically drive 40 miles to work each way. And every other month I do a 800 mile trip and I drive straight through and only make one stop for gas. I'm not sitting there for 45min + if there is not a line to charge. I can fill my tank in under 5 min so unless I can charge the car in under 15 min I won't even look at electric because it's inferior.


Ev's are years and years away from becoming a viable option for most of the drivers. They still have to build up the electric grid, then build a charging infastructor, Advance charging tech as well as advance battery tech. It's just not there and won't be for years.


Some places have a infastructor for charging. But your average person is not going to want to plan trips based on where chargers are located.



Scotty Kramer said that the Camaro is dead! It must be true because he's the guru of cars. I didn't watch the video YouTube thinks I should watch the idiot so I just seen his typical clickbate title.



Personally I'm happy they delayed the Camaro. The Camaro team has dropped the ball and the 2019 some people have to be removed from that team asap. I hope they are restructuring the team and planning for the gen 7 to be a true new generation and the next evaluation of the Camaro. I think when they came out and said they were listening to us it was a wake up call for them and I hope we see more options as well as more performance.



Also people crying about visibility need to put the phone down and drive. Visibility why not the best is not horrible. It's a Camaro not a mini van. I have zero problems with visability.

Glad you have no problem with visibility. But it's a problem. It's like saying I have food on my table so no one could be going hungry.

The major point on visibility isn't whether you have a problem. You bought one. But how many sales are they missing because those other people, me included DO find it to be a problem. Again a slight reminder, every single Camaro review written since 2016 comments on it. So even though you are ok, even good with it, it's a problem that is more than likely leading to at least some lost sales.

Nope not a minivan. But although some have actually posted that if it's ok for a McClaren to have poor visibility it's ok for the Camaro. People think that the Camaro is a hyper car or even a super car. Well in L4 and V6 trims, it needs to be a great coupe. Those buyers are much less willing to trade off visibility, trunk space and lift over height and rear seat room.

It's not about whether you like your Camaro, you clearly do including defending what is, from an engineers point of view, a major miss with the Gen6. It's whey doesn't the BEST PERFORMING CAMARO EVER not destroy the competition in sales. Answer that question without saying $$$.