[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Posaune

2010 - 8931
2011 - 9451
2012 - 9023
2013 - 7929
2014 - 10340
2015 - 9753
2016 - 5827

Funny how the 2014 refresh that all the fanboys were crying about is the big winner.

[merlin803]

Originally Posted by Posaune

Third shift should have started work last month.

Two closest dealers to me (15 miles north and south) have nearly 50 6th gems available. Within 50 miles there are 235 available.

Just looked up the 1SS and 2SS at the ten closest dealerships to me on Car Gurus, 1 dealership had 3 cars, 1 had none and the rest had 1 or 2 each.

For the LT1, 4 of the closest 10 dealerships had zero, with the remainder having 1,2 or 3.

Not exactly a large inventory to pick from and it's not like I am in a secluded area, I am only about 10 miles outside of Detroit.

[Childs Play]

Originally Posted by Posaune

I do believe GM was expecting sales to be higher, like that of the 5th Gen and the Mustang. GM added (or is adding) another shift at LGR and LGR is suppose to average 14,500 Alpha units a month in 2016 - Q2, Q3, Q4. ATS/CTS/Camaro combined sales last month = 8,539.

Not sure if you follow any gaming platforms. But I liken this slump in Camaro sales to how there was a massive slump in Xbox One sales vs PS4 sales when it was released.

Microsoft got completely full of themselves with the Xbox 360 and how well it sold. They came out with all this useless crap that no one wanted on the Xbox One. When they were told no one wanted it and it cost too much they just told gamers (for quite a while) that it WAS what they wanted and to get over it.

I feel it's the same crap happening with the 6th gen. Very few people want to spend $30k on a 4 banger Camaro. Yes I know the Camaro starts a bit lower but with an auto transmission and RS package you're at $30k. (Yes I also know not everyone would care about the RS package but just saying. Also this is the BASE Camaro compared to the MIDGRADE Mustang.) The EB Mustang? You can get the auto, reverse sensing system if you care about it, the interior light kit, and all weather floor mats for $28,3XX. Hell you can throw on the performance package or Recaro seats and you're right over $30k. Remember this is the mid range Mustang. The Mid range Camaro? You're barely below $30k with just the V6 and an auto transmission...

GM got a big head with how well the 5th gen did and when people bitched about costs they basically said it's a great deal you'll like it/get over it and pay it. And... instead of fixing anything, guess what? They have a standard raise in price and they didn't revamp anything or start with a few less options for a cheaper price...

Guess how the Camaro disappeared last time?

That being said I'll pick up a used 6th gen ZL1 eventually.

Also, this is all mostly my annoyed opinion that GM has their head up the part of their body that is their rear end. Feel free to disagree with it if you like.

[Richard0nee]

Originally Posted by Childs Play

Not sure if you follow any gaming platforms. But I liken this slump in Camaro sales to how there was a massive slump in Xbox One sales vs PS4 sales when it was released.

Microsoft got completely full of themselves with the Xbox 360 and how well it sold. They came out with all this useless crap that no one wanted on the Xbox One. When they were told no one wanted it and it cost too much they just told gamers (for quite a while) that it WAS what they wanted and to get over it.

I feel it's the same crap happening with the 6th gen. Very few people want to spend $30k on a 4 banger Camaro. Yes I know the Camaro starts a bit lower but with an auto transmission and RS package you're at $30k. (Yes I also know not everyone would care about the RS package but just saying. Also this is the BASE Camaro compared to the MIDGRADE Mustang.) The EB Mustang? You can get the auto, reverse sensing system if you care about it, the interior light kit, and all weather floor mats for $28,3XX. Hell you can throw on the performance package or Recaro seats and you're right over $30k. Remember this is the mid range Mustang. The Mid range Camaro? You're barely below $30k with just the V6 and an auto transmission...

GM got a big head with how well the 5th gen did and when people bitched about costs they basically said it's a great deal you'll like it/get over it and pay it. And... instead of fixing anything, guess what? They have a standard raise in price and they didn't revamp anything or start with a few less options for a cheaper price...

Guess how the Camaro disappeared last time?

That being said I'll pick up a used 6th gen ZL1 eventually.

Also, this is all mostly my annoyed opinion that GM has their head up the part of their body that is their rear end. Feel free to disagree with it if you like.

I agree with you bro. They shouldn't have really increase the price of the i4 and the V6 maybe but not by much.

I understand the SS, I have one and the price increase is justifiable!

[MovieGuy]

After driving a Mustang for almost 2 years, I can tell you the price is lower because they are built cheaper. Mine spent a lot of time in the shop because of that. I have had my Camaro for about 6 weeks now and it just seems to be more thought out and built a lot better. Plus the base Camaro is better equipped than the premium package on a Mustang.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by iroc_but5.0sdont

The Mustang is an all new design

The Camaro is really just a refresh.

Stop the excuses and own it.

The Mustang is just as much a refresh as the Camaro, though the parts they did change made a bigger difference.

One thing I do have to say about the 6th gen Mustang launch was they made it a big event. It was revealed in multiple places and I think it was even on TV. The Camaro event was much more restricted and wasn't broadcast.

Combine the launch with a Mustang that finally has a modern suspension, a new look that carries over the Mustang style but tweaks it enough to look brand new and a cheaper price. It's no surprise the Mustang sells well.

The Mustang is the better volume car but it doesn't perform as well as the new Camaro.

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by Childs Play

Not sure if you follow any gaming platforms. But I liken this slump in Camaro sales to how there was a massive slump in Xbox One sales vs PS4 sales when it was released.

Microsoft got completely full of themselves with the Xbox 360 and how well it sold. They came out with all this useless crap that no one wanted on the Xbox One. When they were told no one wanted it and it cost too much they just told gamers (for quite a while) that it WAS what they wanted and to get over it.

I feel it's the same crap happening with the 6th gen. Very few people want to spend $30k on a 4 banger Camaro. Yes I know the Camaro starts a bit lower but with an auto transmission and RS package you're at $30k. (Yes I also know not everyone would care about the RS package but just saying. Also this is the BASE Camaro compared to the MIDGRADE Mustang.) The EB Mustang? You can get the auto, reverse sensing system if you care about it, the interior light kit, and all weather floor mats for $28,3XX. Hell you can throw on the performance package or Recaro seats and you're right over $30k. Remember this is the mid range Mustang. The Mid range Camaro? You're barely below $30k with just the V6 and an auto transmission...

GM got a big head with how well the 5th gen did and when people bitched about costs they basically said it's a great deal you'll like it/get over it and pay it. And... instead of fixing anything, guess what? They have a standard raise in price and they didn't revamp anything or start with a few less options for a cheaper price...

Guess how the Camaro disappeared last time?

That being said I'll pick up a used 6th gen ZL1 eventually.

Also, this is all mostly my annoyed opinion that GM has their head up the part of their body that is their rear end. Feel free to disagree with it if you like.

Nah, I'm a PlayStation guy, don't even pay attention to Xbox. Lol. Although, I still haven't upgraded to the PS4.

I get what you're saying. I also know what you are talking about with the last Camaro hiatus. Given that the 4th gen was almost FWD and then sales fell off quickly, GM didn't invest in a new platform to keep the Camaro around. Those who are shrugging off the slow sales of the new 6th gen might be in for a rude awakening. If Camaro sales remain at this struggling level, the Camaro could go away again.

[RallyHT]

Originally Posted by Blueclyde

The sales numbers do matter and are telling. I've owned four 5th gens and would have taken the 6th gen that I ordered if the price and incentives were better. It is no doubt a great car. The problem is that it is at the wrong end of the value equation for what I would refer to as the practical buyer. I believe that is reflected in the numbers. I can't believe, even for a millisecond, that these numbers satisfy GM's plan for the 6th gen.

This is where I disagree. GM held dealer allocation below demand levels. They did not add the additional shift to the plant until April.

This was a PLANNED and CONTROLLED limited launch for the 2016 MY. The advertising was also limited and controlled. We can speculate until the cows come home, but to compare prior year numbers to 2016 numbers is ridiculous. The complete line has not even been released yet.

GM will ramp advertising and more soon enough. For now, I will enjoy the quite ground swell, uniqueness of the vehicle, and be an advocate for it when noticed.

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by RallyHT

This is where I disagree. GM held dealer allocation below demand levels. They did not add the additional shift to the plant until April.

This was a PLANNED and CONTROLLED limited launch for the 2016 MY. The advertising was also limited and controlled. We can speculate until the cows come home, but to compare prior year numbers to 2016 numbers is ridiculous. The complete line has not even been released yet.

GM will ramp advertising and more soon enough. For now, I will enjoy the quite ground swell, uniqueness of the vehicle, and be an advocate for it when noticed.

Then explain all the 6th gents that have been sitting on lots for 100+ days and the sub 6000 sales in May. May should be a big month for pony cars and Camaro and there is plenty of inventory out there.

Come on man. GM has no good reason to keep Camaro sales low right now!

[Bongos2U]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The Mustang is just as much a refresh as the Camaro, though the parts they did change made a bigger difference.

One thing I do have to say about the 6th gen Mustang launch was they made it a big event. It was revealed in multiple places and I think it was even on TV. The Camaro event was much more restricted and wasn't broadcast.

Combine the launch with a Mustang that finally has a modern suspension, a new look that carries over the Mustang style but tweaks it enough to look brand new and a cheaper price. It's no surprise the Mustang sells well.

The Mustang is the better volume car but it doesn't perform as well as the new Camaro.

Correct. Ford had a big media event of re-creating the Mustang on top of the Empire State Building (something they did in the '60's for the Mustang's debut). Alan Mulally was even on Good Morning America talking about this new Mustang when it first started hitting dealerships.

For the Camaro...crickets...Outside of auto enthusiast websites and magazines, I don't think it was ever mentioned in the mainstream media. Just the Belle Isle reveal, and Find New Roads tour, both of which didn't get much attention outside of auto websites and magazines.

[doc7000]

Numbers with no context doesn't mean anything......

Last year on average this is what the cars sold...

Mustang: 10,195
Challenger: 2,427
Camaro: 6,458

You have peaks and you have troughs and there are different reasons why they happen....

Last year the Camaro moving almost 10,000 units was a peak and most likely happened due to discounting of that model. combine that with 2 fewer selling days this year compared to last year and you had a pretty big drop in sales for the Camaro (some 40%). However at 5,800 units is only 700 units under average for last year, currently the Camaro is averaging about 6,300 units a month year to date. If the Camaro averages some 7,000 units a month going forward then it will beat last years numbers, do we know if it will do this? it is anyones guess.

Interesting side note year to date the Mustang is down 3,382 units while the Camaro is down 2,117 and the Challenger is down 1,038 units.

[doc7000]

Originally Posted by Bongos2U

Correct. Ford had a big media event of re-creating the Mustang on top of the Empire State Building (something they did in the '60's for the Mustang's debut). Alan Mulally was even on Good Morning America talking about this new Mustang when it first started hitting dealerships.

For the Camaro...crickets...Outside of auto enthusiast websites and magazines, I don't think it was ever mentioned in the mainstream media. Just the Belle Isle reveal, and Find New Roads tour, both of which didn't get much attention outside of auto websites and magazines.

Not having coverage and not getting ads probably does play a role in the sales performance of the 2016 Camaro. Also it seems like dealers in which the car is hot is short on supply while others where its not moving have tons.

No doubt having no LS Camaro also plays a role however that was planned and they probably had an understanding that they were going to give the Mustang the sales crown.

[Top_Agent]

GM produced a high quality product and is pricing the vehicle to reflect that improvement. The problem I think GM may not have anticipated is that the Camaro/muscle car consumer demographic is not quite ready to evolve to a higher pricing bracket knowing other viable alternatives. The car is outstanding and GM delivered the goods. I just don't think the typical Camaro consumer is ready to pay for that improvement. The sweet spot must be between $25k - $35k and which vehicle can deliver the most car in that price point wins.

[MikeT]

I remember ~18 months ago in this forum as news and rumors trickled in about the specs of the 6th gen. And it all sounded great (alpha platform, LT1 V8, LGX V6, 8 sp auto, reduced weight, new infotainment, new safety equipment, etc. etc).

And, yet my reaction at the time was, 'Great, but how do they do all that and not transform the Camaro into a substantially more expensive car?' The answer, it turns out, is that they don't. It was possible to get into a 5th gen Camaro V6 in the low-$20s. A 6th gen Camaro V6 is basically going to run you $30K. The bottom line is that you're talking about a premium of $6,000-$7,000 over the previous generation. Sure, you're getting a significantly better car, but more money is more money. Every buyer has to make his/her own decision as to whether it's worth the extra money. Many folks here think along the lines of 'I'm totally fine paying more and getting a better car,' and I personally think the same way. But let's face it. These sales numbers have got to be a disappointment for GM. GM gambled when they could move the car upscale. And based on the reviews and awards, the gamble paid off. The new Camaro has impressed 'car people' (reviewers, fan, folks who appreciate automotive technology). But 'car people' are but a subset of a larger group called 'car buyers.' And with 'car buyers,' the gamble of moving the Camaro upmarket hasn't paid off... at least not yet.