[JeromeS13]

Nevermind.

[Norm Peterson]

For the thread to be really useful, Post #1 will need to be a summary of everybody's times, separated by track or possibly Track & Configuration. And that will need somebody willing to keep it reasonably well updated.

The summary might also include tire model and pad compound(s) and identification of the method of time verification. As done in a similar thread on Camaro5, a link to the individual's reply where further details and video links actually reside would hold the summaries down to only one line per entry.

Something like this ↓↓↓

Streets of Willow
1:25.402 - JeromeS13 - 2017 SS/1LE/Different Tires/Pads - PDR - February 25, 2017 (link to some Post #)
1:26.4?? - JeromeS13 - 2017 SS/1LE/Tires/Pads - PDR - some earlier date (link to some earlier Post #)

People listing HPDE times may be using lap timing methods other than PDR, and won't be using transponder-based event timing - Harry's, Aim Solo, and frame-by-frame analysis of GoPro video are three other methods that I can think of offhand.


(looking forward to seeing lap times at NJMP)


Norm

[JeromeS13]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

For the thread to be really useful, Post #1 will need to be a summary of everybody's times, separated by track or possibly Track & Configuration. And that will need somebody willing to keep it reasonably well updated.

The summary might also include tire model and pad compound(s) and identification of the method of time verification. As done in a similar thread on Camaro5, a link to the individual's reply where further details and video links actually reside would hold the summaries down to only one line per entry.

Something like this ↓↓↓

Streets of Willow
1:25.402 - JeromeS13 - 2017 SS/1LE/Different Tires/Pads - PDR - February 25, 2017 (link to some Post #)
1:26.4?? - JeromeS13 - 2017 SS/1LE/Tires/Pads - PDR - some earlier date (link to some earlier Post #)

People listing HPDE times may be using lap timing methods other than PDR, and won't be using transponder-based event timing - Harry's, Aim Solo, and frame-by-frame analysis of GoPro video are three other methods that I can think of offhand.


(looking forward to seeing lap times at NJMP)


Norm

Agreed. I'm willing to keep this thread updated.

Also, Since we can't verify the accuracy of Harry's, etc., I'd prefer to list only the verifiable methods listed). As long as you use the correct start/finish line, my PDR was accurate to the .01 second.

[Norm Peterson]

Not to pick an argument, but how do you know that either Harry's or Aim is any less accurate than PDR? GoPro I'll give you won't be quite as precise, because at 30 frames/second you can only resolve times to the nearest 0.03 second (which should still be good enough for the purposes of this thread). I think the thread will do better if it's more inclusive than if it's less so.

I'm not looking to get any of my own lap times posted in any 'fast list' here.


Norm

[JeromeS13]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Not to pick an argument, but how do you know that either Harry's or Aim is any less accurate than PDR? GoPro I'll give you won't be quite as precise, because at 30 frames/second you can only resolve times to the nearest 0.03 second (which should still be good enough for the purposes of this thread). I think the thread will do better if it's more inclusive than if it's less so.

I'm not looking to get any of my own lap times posted in any 'fast list' here.


Norm

On the inverse, how do you know they ARE accurate? Until I've seen lap times from Harry's, etc. that show dead on accuracy, I'll prefer official times or PDR times as previously stated.

[Norm Peterson]

Aim Solo specs per https://www.aimtechnologies.com/aim-...pecifications/

Speed: By GPS
Time measurement: Over GPS
– measuring accuracy 1/100 sec.
– Up to 5 split times
– Separate settable Start and Finish line
– Predictive Lap time
Acceleration: Internal Triaxial Acceleration sensor
Sum scan rate: PS data and triaxial accelerometer at 10 Hz

FWIW, 0.01 second corresponds to a couple of feet, and the scatter in lap times during a good HPDE session is easily 10 or 20 times that even if you take out the laps where you let off a little because you were being passed by somebody faster.


Norm

[JeromeS13]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Aim Solo specs per https://www.aimtechnologies.com/aim-...pecifications/



FWIW, 0.01 second corresponds to a couple of feet, and the scatter in lap times during a good HPDE session is easily 10 or 20 times that even if you take out the laps where you let off a little because you were being passed by somebody faster.


Norm

Ok. So + Aim Solo times.

[RXtacy]

For the purpose of this thread do we really need accuracy to the hundredth or thousandth? There's no awards or cash prizes, just internet bragging rights. I feel like caping it at tenths would be sufficient.

[JeromeS13]

I'm just trying to keep everyone "honest". Instead of someone posting, "I ran a x:xx:xx at this track", I would prefer to have SOME sort of verifiable lap time, that's from a somewhat reputable source. I've seen a lot of variance in cellphone apps.

If you run Time Trials, Time Attack, or any other organized event that uses transponders, perfect. In those instances, you *usually* have relatively clear traffic and can manage an actual hot lap. Most DE sessions there is too much traffic to even bother.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by JeromeS13

I'm just trying to keep everyone "honest". Instead of someone posting, "I ran a x:xx:xx at this track", I would prefer to have SOME sort of verifiable lap time, that's from a somewhat reputable source. I've seen a lot of variance in cellphone apps.

If you run Time Trials, Time Attack, or any other organized event that uses transponders, perfect. In those instances, you *usually* have relatively clear traffic and can manage an actual hot lap. Most DE sessions there is too much traffic to even bother.

I understand this exactly and I agree with most of it. I want this thread to work.

I'm going to claim ignorance concerning the accuracy of Harry's or any of the other phone apps (as far as I know, the phone I have can't run any of them).

I like the idea of having video at least as substantiation that the lap was reasonably clear of traffic, if not for providing approximate confirmation of the time claimed. But even if you couldn't get clear of traffic and your times suffered slightly as a result, any lap time claimed would eventually work its way down toward the bottom of the standings for that track.

I've run with a transponder exactly once, at an Optima event a little over 5 years ago, but that was officially a competition where 0.00x seconds could have mattered. Most HPDE events/entities go out of their way to state that they're not about competition, and consequently do not provide timing. That's where PDR, Aim, and other Aim-level data acquisition systems come in. Traqmate is a system of probably similar accuracy, but I haven't looked into that one either. Probably others that I don't even know of.

Where I disagree . . . so far, the DE events I've been to weren't so crowded that you couldn't get at least a couple of clear laps every session, and usually more than that. I'm guessing traffic density has been no more than about 8 cars per mile of track. 10 at the very most. Maybe it's different in other places, or I suppose it might be possible for your times to be frequently affected by other traffic if you're significantly faster than the rest of your run group . Like, if you're lapping most everybody else in a 12-lap session.


Norm

[slick3]

Big Willow-CW
1:35.622 - Slick3 - 2017 SS/1LE/Mods in Sig - CylHeads - PDR

Video Reference:

https://youtu.be/6cFqL0qbMGY



Time collected with a Speed Ventures transponder. Can post proof off the race hero app if I need to. The time in the top left corner of the video is WRONG. The title has the correct lap time.

[ninetres]

Harry’s is accurate to +/- 0.10 second. I’ve used it for a decade across multiple phones, and usually have a transponder on the car as well. Out of 100s of laps, (1000s?)......it’s alwaus within 0.10 of the transponder.

[Provoste]

Harry’s screenshot, aim solo photo, pdr vid should all suffice. Who’s gonna own it though? Ideally the thread starter complies tracks/times/ driver in the OP.

Here’s the type of format I’m describing: https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/9393...-in-a-gt4.html

[JeromeS13]

Originally Posted by Provoste

Harry’s screenshot, aim solo photo, pdr vid should all suffice. Who’s gonna own it though? Ideally the thread starter complies tracks/times/ driver in the OP.

Here’s the type of format I’m describing: https://rennlist.com/forums/gt4/9393...-in-a-gt4.html

Works for me. I'll edit OP.