[iroc_but5.0sdont]

Originally Posted by DrkPhx

Maybe it's regional, but I don't get the "low supply" comments. I checked a week ago for local dealers within 50 miles and found 50 plus '16 Camaro's listed and almost all of them had some type of discount which surprised me. I do agree with the comments about the higher msrp hurting initial sales.

So true and it's the same where I live the dealerships are loaded with 16's but they just are not selling.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

Agree. I'm 6'-4 and this is the first car I've ever been in where there is more adjustment than I can use. Because gen6 is narrower, the door arm rest and console is positioned perfect so it does fit like a glove. The Camaro seats are far more comfortable than the Mustang, Challenger and M2.

I had the same observation of the Mustang. It's rear seat does not have better leg room and rear visibility is only modestly better.


The Mustangs dash layout looks old fashion with gimmicky switches and expanses of plastic coated faux aluminum. The Camaro's dash looks fresh and innovative with nice tech. The Camaro's interior is stunning

I wanted to check the amount of room in the rear of the Camaro vs Mustang. Chevy's website just has TBD for all the rear measurements as well as front shoulder room lol.

As for the supply comments the local dealer by me has plenty, but they are a huge dealer. They had over 20 a week ago.

One of the normal sized dealers only has 3. A 2LT with a MSRP of 40,495 and two 2SS's with MSRP of 47K and 48K. I am sure that doesn't help either

[Marty McFlew]

Originally Posted by Corona

I still think the pricing is an issue for your average car buyer. The Mustang has a much better price point.

Yeh..price and dependability is an issue. Price is is just a few thousand out of reach for some. And those who do spend want to be sure they have a problem free car....with all the bugs worked out.

[90503]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I wanted to check the amount of room in the rear of the Camaro vs Mustang. Chevy's website just has TBD for all the rear measurements as well as front shoulder room lol.

As for the supply comments the local dealer by me has plenty, but they are a huge dealer. They had over 20 a week ago.

One of the normal sized dealers only has 3. A 2LT with a MSRP of 40,495 and two 2SS's with MSRP of 47K and 48K. I am sure that doesn't help either

Hopefully it's readable....Dimensions from the mag review.....

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by Carbon Dynamics

Another reason the new Camaro might be doing poorly is due to its design, the average buyer would assume the Gen6 is just a refreshed Gen5. I don't think its grabbing new interests or exciting in the looks department, only enthusiasts would know its a whole new car with better performance goodies.

Compared to the Gen6 Mustang that departed a lot from 5th Gen Mustang, its turning heads and people are genuinely curious about it. Most people don't even know its a Mustang, I drove mine to the movies the other day and people were asking me what brand it was, a lady thought it was a Maserati and some guy thought it was a German car.
The new look is what's really driving Mustang sales, it's grabbing people's attention because the average Joe is curious to know what it is. Until they go to a dealer lot and they are lured into buying one. GM should have went more revolutionary with the new design, it looks too much like the 5th gen.

Yes, I have spent time in a Mustang 2015 GT and a V6 soft top. It is a big improvement over the last model. The visibility is better and it seems less cramped than the new Camaro. The interior, although not as high quality as the CA6, is a step up from the old car and sucessfully evokes iconic Mustangs. Even the V6 felt fast enough. I do not think most people buy these cars for ultimate performance. Look how BMW softened thier sporty cars.

The Mustang drives great, feels fast and get looks. And model for model is a little cheaper than the CA6. Dealers did not do themselves any favors by loading up 2SSes with valuless addons. One M6 locally was loaded up well over $50K. But that is dying down now with the current cars coming in. And as for discounts, just call up the internet sales manager and ask about a CA6 in stock. All the 2SSes I called about were $2K+ under MSRP before incentives.

I spent some time in South Beach a few weeks again. Lots of new Mustangs getting looks even among the exotics. Zero new Camaros. The CA6 does not look much different to Camaro outsiders.

I think Mustangs will continue to win the sales race. I am fine with that. We are going to have to be happy beating Mustangs in the 1/4 mile and at the race track. I know I will.

[suzook]

Originally Posted by iroc_but5.0sdont

Hate to say it but this is so true. I remember when Motor Trend called out Chevy for it's lazy redesign on the Corvette C6. The Camaro C6 does look a lot like the C5. At the same time Chevy's last major redesign of the Camaro did not sell very well so maybe they did not want to go away from the current design.

It did not sell well because it was ugly as $hit. Idont agree with some people saying the c6 not getting attention. People are breaking their necks looking at my car still 6weeks later. Sure it's similar to the c5, but it's different enough.

[dreamingat30fps]

I also think the design itself of the Mustang lends itself to a wider audience. The Camaro has a very... I dunno... manly look to it. It's beefier looking and compared to the Mustang has a look that IMO may turn some people away. Where the Mustang I think is more appealing to a general audience.

PS: I don't know why it even matters if the Mustang sells more than the Camaro or vice versa. Personally I would rather no one buy the Camaro thus making mine more unique.

[Bongos2U]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I also think the design itself of the Mustang lends itself to a wider audience. The Camaro has a very... I dunno... manly look to it. It's beefier looking and compared to the Mustang has a look that IMO may turn some people away. Where the Mustang I think is more appealing to a general audience.

PS: I don't know why it even matters if the Mustang sells more than the Camaro or vice versa. Personally I would rather no one buy the Camaro thus making mine more unique.

I hope you said this tongue in cheek (bold type). If this happens we will have 2002 all over again.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Bongos2U

I hope you said this tongue in cheek (bold type). If this happens we will have 2002 all over again.

Sorry I have no idea what happened in 2002. My previous car was a Z4M only about 3000 made so spotting another Z4M is pretty rare.

[RenegadeXR]

So every time sales numbers for the Camaro lag behind the Mustang, people will rehash the following excuses.

• It hasn't been on the market long enough (this ignores month to month sales)
• It's a slow buying season, wait until summer (yet again, this ignores month to month sales)
• GM is struggling to meet demand (unless you have insider knowledge, this is an speculation at best)
• GM isn't advertising the car well
• It's too expensive / needs incentives
• The market is already flooded with 5th gens at better prices
• The anticipation for this car was less than the 5th gen
• The turbo I4 isn't out yet

I think that about covers it.

Excuses aside, if looking just at sales and pure numbers, the Mustang is winning and it's very unlikely the Camaro will suddenly pull ahead. Unless they sell a lot of turbo I4's, it's going to be hard to close the gap. The upcoming 1LE certainly isn't going to do that as a relatively low-volume car.

I think it's also surprising that the Dodge Challenger, a car that's been out since 2008 pretty much unchanged other than an interior refresh, is now equaling the Camaro in terms of sales. It was a distant third not long ago. I think it's stolen the market for people who wanted a truly retro looking car at a more affordable price. Not going to lie, if I was in the market, this would now be my personal choice too. From a pure design standpoint, I like the Mustang and Challenger but the 6th gen Camaro never grew on me (before you flame, this is a personal opinion which I have a right to, so shush.)

[Capricio]

Originally Posted by RenegadeXR

So every time sales numbers for the Camaro lag behind the Mustang, people will rehash the following excuses.

• It hasn't been on the market long enough (this ignores month to month sales)
• It's a slow buying season, wait until summer (yet again, this ignores month to month sales)
• GM is struggling to meet demand (unless you have insider knowledge, this is an speculation at best)
• GM isn't advertising the car well
• It's too expensive / needs incentives
• The market is already flooded with 5th gens at better prices
• The anticipation for this car was less than the 5th gen
• The turbo I4 isn't out yet

I think that about covers it.

The lack of a convertible and more importantly a high volume lower cost base model are what I would consider very legitimate "excuses". The I4 Turbo will measure up well against the base mustang and challengers, where much or most of the sales volume resides. I'm sure GM had it's reasons for releasing the V6 first, but holding off on the most affordable configuration is almost certain to get sales off to a relatively slow start. Not sure what percentage of overall sales convertibles make up, but right now, camaro is getting Zero of it.

Wait until those two versions are released and THEN make a comparison.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Bongos2U

I hope you said this tongue in cheek (bold type). If this happens we will have 2002 all over again.

This months sales figures show that this segment is 22,000 units per month. If GM doesn't hit their sales objective I'd expect them to make changes to the car, price, etc. Not abandon the segment like 2002 and surrender it to Ford and Dodge.

2002 and poor sales happened for a lot of reasons

1) That era GM management/union ran the company into the ground
2) The decision to pull the plug had to have been made in late 1997.
3) Gen4 was sold for TEN MODEL year. Duh. Sales dropped
4) Not meeting crash standards had nothing to do with it. See 2 and 3

They came at this with a higher priced, higher content, higher performing car. The convertible and turbo 4 aren't out yet. GM's report this month says they made a decision to turn away from fleet sales in favor of retail. Drop in overall volume but better bottom line. We have no idea what thier expectations are for segment % sales.

[Jeb114]

After you boil down all the reasons for slow sales, I believe the main problem lack of new styling, and price. Many people I know with 5th gens have said, why am I going to go into debt for a car that looks the same. The 5th gen people are not rushing to the dealers to trade there cars in,(I know the differences we are enthusiasts and not the volume buyers) Volume buyers are thinking what's the point it is not that different and it cost much more. Time for something new and different. dodge is starting to show them something different. an starting at $26,000 for a nice equipped base model. Hell there base R/T is $31,000. they also offer 7 different variants up to the Hellcat.

[Punk_rider]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Better is a relative term depending on what criteria you're using to qualify the word "better".

Does it offer better stock performance numbers? Yes, no one, even in the Mustang world is arguing that.

Does it offer better fuel economy? Yes, technology is a great thing. So far the Coyote doesn't have all the tricks the LT1 has going for it (DI, AFM, etc)

Is it more livable as a every day car? Not a chance in hell. It's more cramped, the back seat is even more useless than the Mustang, the trunk is less usable, the seating position is even worse for people over 6 feet tall.

The Mustang, adjusted for inflation, has increased overall cost less than $1,000 trim to trim over the last 6 calendar years and 5 model years. The Camaro has jumped between $3,000 and $4,000. Ford has done a dramatically better job at keeping cost to the consumer essentially flat, increasing US sales, going global and marketing an American icon to picky European buyers.

Ford is doing it right, and GM should pay attention.

You might be right, what's really sad is when you say "Ford is doing it right"...

Damn, we're talking about performance cars, american icons ... and you think Ford is doing it right when they produce a not so great car for a not so big price ...

The Camaro is better and more expensive. But better ... and it's a performance car ... so doing it better is just ... doin' it right to me!

My explanation of Ford selling more than Chevy?

Well, I'd say the Mustang look is much more euro-japanese-internationally flat. I mean, this design, this mix of Fusion and cheap Aston Martin is just already seen all over the world in different brands (ford, aston, jaguar, and jap' brands ...). It doesn't mean it is ugly (i don't discuss tastes), it means it's a easier design, a design you know the majority will like even if it's a design that will be forgotten fast. I mean, I don't think anyone considers the current mustang look will become iconic ...

I personaly think the new Camaro is ugly. Yeah, ugly, but much more futurist, much more daring. the risk was to not please everybody. Despite being a better car...

From a european stand point, I can tell you my 2013 1LE turns much more heads than the new Mustang (few are driving around). I would even say that a number very close to zero people turns their heads at the new Mustang ... despite the uncommmon noise ...

Bah, after all, sales ... we don't know what money GM makes on a single Camaro. They maybe don't need as much sales as Ford to make the same amount of profit



And ... historically ... I kinda feel it's in line with the Mustang/Camaro rivalry ...

the Mustang sells more and the Camaro perfoms better ...

anyway, I feel good in my 2013 1LE ... and I'm kinda happy I don't see my car at every corner ... feels good to not be a huge seller....