[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

It's always up to the drivers as we saw in this race. If the Demon had been piloted perfectly, than maybe it would have won. Maybe. But Nick, who I usually find to be a tool, actually produced pretty good results here. Even when waiting for the Demon to slam it before he went, AND coming from behind, his ~610-620 RWHP ZL1 pulled on it. I'm not counting the races he did against Mike and the one he did were they both went on 3 but the Demon driver was leaving it in D and waiting for the downshift. Had all races been like that, then I wouldn't have said anything. But the 2 races where Nick let him get the drop (Especially the one with the 570S where he started WELL after the Demon got a more than fair "hit") were pretty telling to me. So I'm not going to bother talking HP and power to weight and all that. We all know where the Demon sits there and where a stock ZL1 sits (Of course, Nick's ZL1 was NOT stock, Intake and Tune, and Nick drove his properly).

But to answer your kind of sarcastic questions, yes, on the street, if the Demon driver doesn't know what he's doing, you have a pretty good chance at beating them in a ZL1. Same thing for Hellcats, Z06s, and many other cars that are in the ZL1's ball park. If we put a perfect driver in both cars, sure, the Demon PROBABLY would beat it, more so from a dig than from a roll though. An A10 ZL1 is not going to be dismissed easily though from a roll, this is proven now.

And don't underestimate me, I'm not taking either the first video or this video at face value. I'm not saying "Oh, ZL1 won, it's faster" like a brain-dead idiot. I'm factoring in many things. My logic shows me that even in the race with Nick, once both cars were in their power and were running side by side, Nick's car pulled. So I'm thinking, ok, even if the Demon had started properly in 2nd gear and the driver knew how to drop it back into automatic once they started, I'm not seeing the Demon pulling away from Nick's ZL1. At best, they'd run side by side until instant-jailtime speeds.

That's all. And I really think the argument "It's a Hellcat with 100 more HP" is dumb when it's tried to be used to show how fast it is. Just like what's happening with the C7 ZR1 (If you are on CF you'd be reading this), traction on these high HP, RWD, front engined cars is holding them back severely. The ZR1 is HARDLY outrunning Z06s under 100-120 MPH. Again, I know many factors play into this like aero and stuff. But the same thing is happening with the Hellcat vs. Demon I think. The Hellcat already pushes into the limits of traction. A Demon and a Hellcat, raced equally with drag radials, no trans brake, and regular foot to the floor racing, would probably be VERY close up until 100+ MPH. Benefits of 750+ HP aren't going to come into play until triple digits. And that's well proven on the street and on the track.

Keep it a friendly discussion. I'm here to dispute facts and figures, not hate or love on one car particularly.

I'll put it simply. A low 600 HP ZL1 is not going to beat a stock Demon provided both drivers have equal driving skills. A shitty driver in a Demon will lose to a good driver in a ZL1. We all know this. Just like a shitty driver in a ZL1 will lose to a good driver in a GT. So let's drop the driving skills out of the equation. The discussion is not about driver ability in either car. It is about which car is faster. A Demon is hands down faster than a ZL1. That is not up for debate. A Demon is faster than a ZL1 with a tune and CAI. Hands down. A Demon against a bolt-on tuned pullied ZL1 would be a good race. But even then I would say it will be either dead even with the win going to whoever gets the jump or the Demon will win. The Demon is faster. I'll go as far as to say that the ZL1 without FBO, pulley, and tune would be no match for a Demon in a roll race and/or in a drag race.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I'll put it simply. A low 600 HP ZL1 is not going to beat a stock Demon provided both drivers have equal driving skills. A shitty driver in a Demon will lose to a good driver in a ZL1. We all know this. Just like a shitty driver in a ZL1 will lose to a good driver in a GT. So let's drop the driving skills out of the equation. The discussion is not about driver ability in either car. It is about which car is faster. A Demon is hands down faster than a ZL1. That is not up for debate. A Demon is faster than a ZL1 with a tune and CAI. Hands down. A Demon against a bolt-on tuned pullied ZL1 would be a good race. But even then I would say it will be either dead even with the win going to whoever gets the jump or the Demon will win. The Demon is faster. I'll go as far as to say that the ZL1 without FBO, pulley, and tune would be no match for a Demon in a roll race and/or in a drag race.

You can't put drivers aside that easily. The discussion on which car is faster in a perfect world is what the manufacturer claims are there for. Dodge over claimed.

I know one thing, I'm going to run every single Demon that is willing that I see in my ZL1 and Z06 and I'm going to video all of them. These things aren't as fast as everybody is thinking, that's my bet, and it's being slowly proven so far and we're going to continue to see that proven.

*EDIT* I can't help but feeling like you're not reading my posts fully or are ignoring it. The words "A 6th gen ZL1 is faster than a Demon, stock for stock, 1/4 mile, mod for mod etc." have never left my mouth and never will. My point is it's not AS FAST as people seem to think it is. It certainly isn't a 9.6 second car and 2.3 0-60s are probably never going to be reached by many (any?) owners. And I don't think it deserves to hold the title of fastest production car with such a one sided purpose, and so far it's mediocre at that purpose anyway (Compared to what it's attempting/Dodge said it would beat!).

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Why so much anger in your heart? It's only a car.

Lol, I'm happy as a lark. I'm being serious here, I actually laugh sometimes at the Demon videos. I haven't seen it beat a single car yet, granted I haven't gone looking for it. But the videos I've seen that had a Demon in it, have lost to everything, including McLaren production cars that the Demon is supposed to OBLITERATE.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

I know one thing, I'm going to run every single Demon that is willing that I see in my ZL1 and Z06 and I'm going to video all of them. These things aren't as fast as everybody is thinking, that's my bet, and it's being slowly proven so far and we're going to continue to see that proven.

How is it being proven? There are 2 videos of a Demon against a ZL1. 1 video was a modded 700+ HP ZL1 and the Demon was short shifting the entire race. The other video is this one which is sketchy as hell. This same guy in this video raced a HC and that was a better race than this was. So does that mean the HC is faster than the Demon? And what else is worth mentioning is the Demon losing to a 3100 pound car that had almost 600 HP and losing to a Stingray with almost 600 HP and weight reduction. And not one of these races gave much in the way of details. That is hardly enough "proof" to make the claims you're making. More than likely these Demons aren't even broken in yet. But by all means, go out there looking for them. I hope you do come across one. And I hope you're honest to post up your loss as well as ALL the mods you have. And if you're ever around here then come to my track. I know a HC owner who had a Demon on order last year and probably already has it by now. I would LOVE to see you go up against his since he actually knows how to drive.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Lol, I'm happy as a lark. I'm being serious here, I actually laugh sometimes at the Demon videos. I haven't seen it beat a single car yet, granted I haven't gone looking for it. But the videos I've seen that had a Demon in it, have lost to everything, including McLaren production cars that the Demon is supposed to OBLITERATE.

Each video you've seen has been a stock Demon against modded cars or against a McLaren 720S which is a $300K supercar with over 700 HP and weighing in at 3100 pounds. It has a top speed of 212 MPH. Seriously, WTF do you expect in a race like that? I think the problem is that you're trying to tear the Demon down yet you have nothing substantial to base anything on. So you think because a 700+ RWHP ZL1, a 3100 pound 720S, and a highly modded Stingray beat stock Demons that you're somehow going to go out there and beat them?

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

How is it being proven? There are 2 videos of a Demon against a ZL1. 1 video was a modded 700+ HP ZL1 and the Demon was short shifting the entire race. The other video is this one which is sketchy as hell. This same guy in this video raced a HC and that was a better race than this was. So does that mean the HC is faster than the Demon? And what else is worth mentioning is the Demon losing to a 3100 pound car that had almost 600 HP and losing to a Stingray with almost 600 HP and weight reduction. And not one of these races gave much in the way of details. That is hardly enough "proof" to make the claims you're making. More than likely these Demons aren't even broken in yet. But by all means, go out there looking for them. I hope you do come across one. And I hope you're honest to post up your loss as well as ALL the mods you have. And if you're ever around here then come to my track. I know a HC owner who had a Demon on order last year and probably already has it by now. I would LOVE to see you go up against his since he actually knows how to drive.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Each video you've seen has been a stock Demon against modded cars or against a McLaren 720S which is a $300K supercar with over 700 HP and weighing in at 3100 pounds. It has a top speed of 212 MPH. Seriously, WTF do you expect in a race like that? I think the problem is that you're trying to tear the Demon down yet you have nothing substantial to base anything on. So you think because a 700+ RWHP ZL1, a 3100 pound 720S, and a highly modded Stingray beat stock Demons that you're somehow going to go out there and beat them?

There's one simple fact that blows up your argument, at least against the 570S/720S....I thought this was the "Worlds Fastest Production Car"??? Shouldn't matter how much it costs or how light it is, the Demon is the worlds fastest production car. Right?

That's how my point is being proven.

[FNxR3DNECK]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Each video you've seen has been a stock Demon against modded cars or against a McLaren 720S which is a $300K supercar with over 700 HP and weighing in at 3100 pounds. It has a top speed of 212 MPH. Seriously, WTF do you expect in a race like that? I think the problem is that you're trying to tear the Demon down yet you have nothing substantial to base anything on. So you think because a 700+ RWHP ZL1, a 3100 pound 720S, and a highly modded Stingray beat stock Demons that you're somehow going to go out there and beat them?

To be fair it was a 570S that only has about 530 whp I believe, no where near 700... With that said the Demon is not made for roll racing I think that's the big thing to keep in mind with those videos. Also Nick's ZL1 is only about 600 whp...

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by FNxR3DNECK

To be fair it was a 570S that only has about 530 whp I believe, no where near 700... With that said the Demon is not made for roll racing I think that's the big thing to keep in mind with those videos. Also Nick's ZL1 is only about 600 whp...

He's speaking of the 720S that DragTimes raced against a Demon and absolutely destroyed it even though the 720S is stock and the Demon is supposed to be the worlds fastest production car, apparently that only counts at the strip, but even there I bet the 720S would cream it repeatedly. The 720S puts down 680-710 RWHP.

And he's talking about the ZL1 in the video that started this thread, not Nick's.

Still doesn't matter though, 2 factory stock cars in this thread alone have been shown to rape the Demon. The Demon is supposed to be the worlds fastest car. Even with a driver mod and 32 more HP from 100 octane, I'm not seeing them close the gap on either car. When I think fastest product car, I certainly don't think it should lose to any factory stock cars from a 40 or 60 roll. Wimping out and saying "Oh it's only for the drag strip" is beyond the height of ridiculousness. It's just excuses at that point. Dodge wants to hold the title, they should have put a car out that could do it reliably.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=22LfM6ZmXsk

In here Mike says he’s going to be re-racing the Demon when it has the full crate installed with both his 570 and ZR1. Should be fun to watch.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

There's one simple fact that blows up your argument, at least against the 570S/720S....I thought this was the "Worlds Fastest Production Car"??? Shouldn't matter how much it costs or how light it is, the Demon is the worlds fastest production car. Right?

That's how my point is being proven.

Yea and one simple fact blows up your argument...and it's something you just said a few posts ago. That you can't count out the driver. Even if the Demon is the fastest production car in the world that doesn't mean that everyone in a Demon will be everyone in something else. Plus 3 of the videos were against modded cars...so your entire argument is moot. And the one that was stock, that wasn't a drag race. Dodge clearly meant it was the fastest in a drag race...not a roll race. And even still put a good driver or even myself in a Demon against any of those cars in those videos and I assure you the outcome would be different. Again you're basing everything you say off of extremely limited and debatable information. There are over 3000 Demons out there. So what happens if the vast majority of them start destroying everything out there? Is your tune gonna change? I mean, for shit's sake you're acting like these 4 represent all of them. I can find 4 videos of stock ZL1s losing to stock Z06s, stock Hellcats, etc. Is that indicative of every ZL1?

[67Builder]

Holy crap! This thread is still going?

[Harry76]

Worlds fastest production car?
Wouldn't that mean as delivered?
Once you start adding the parts it becomes a modded car.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Yea and one simple fact blows up your argument...and it's something you just said a few posts ago. That you can't count out the driver. Even if the Demon is the fastest production car in the world that doesn't mean that everyone in a Demon will be everyone in something else. Plus 3 of the videos were against modded cars...so your entire argument is moot. And the one that was stock, that wasn't a drag race. Dodge clearly meant it was the fastest in a drag race...not a roll race. And even still put a good driver or even myself in a Demon against any of those cars in those videos and I assure you the outcome would be different. Again you're basing everything you say off of extremely limited and debatable information. There are over 3000 Demons out there. So what happens if the vast majority of them start destroying everything out there? Is your tune gonna change? I mean, for shit's sake you're acting like these 4 represent all of them. I can find 4 videos of stock ZL1s losing to stock Z06s, stock Hellcats, etc. Is that indicative of every ZL1?

Man, you're grasping at straws. A post ago you tried to count out drivers and say that basically only what the professionals get matter. A "driver mod" was not going to make it hang with that 720S OR the 570S and those are BOTH production cars that the Demon is supposed to be faster than.

So justification 2 after drivers is "It was meant for the drag strip". Hold on, you're telling me that Dodge is getting to top the charts with their manufacturer claims and the justification is IT ONLY MATTERS ON A STRIP? 99.9% of car owners will NEVER see a drag strip, especially owners of cars that are capable of running 9.7-10.5 in the 1/4.

So you're waiving all of the videos, threads, articles, and magazines that have failed to produce stellar results from the Demon, piloting them in the 10s and 11s, with a hero getting a 9.98, and saying that the Demon should be called the fastest production car because Dodge got it to go 9.65? Btw, meet one on the road and all that fastest production car stuff is waived because "You're not on the strip and that's not what it was built for"?

This is getting more and more ridiculous.

[96MrBass]

Originally Posted by Harry76

Worlds fastest production car?
Wouldn't that mean as delivered?
Once you start adding the parts it becomes a modded car.

To me it's kinda weird in most states I don't believe 4" skinnies are dot approved for the street. Fiat tv commercials show it doing wheelies on public road's promote it as the quickest ( factory stock ) car which it probably is at a track. On the streets it won't matter.