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Old 03-16-2018, 04:28 PM   #1
parish8

 
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22 volts into a zl1 pump, bypassing fpcm

my added inline pumps are not giving me as much fuel as I had hoped. one should take me to my current hp but I have to run both. also I have to turn the first pump on very early like around 100kpa for it to be spooled up for when the boost comes on. I could have reworked my aux fuel system, maybe with some better pumps and I may but I decided to try the voltage booster at 22volts and see how far that gets me.

since I have the secondary low side with a regulator return I am able to run the stock pump full speed bypassing the fpcm. I did a garage test and have it set up so below 80kpa it is 14.5v and by 120kpa it is 22 volts. I set my base pressure at 50psi.

one question I have always had, does the factory fpcm goto 100% duty cycle when it needs to? if not this will fix that issue.

if you run the jms and keep the fpcm I am told you have to limit the output voltage to 16.5volts. bypassing the fpcm allows me to run it all the way up to 22volt.

this set up wouldn't work for very many people. you need to have a fuel pressure regulator with a return line. I had this because of my 2nd fuel system. I think anyone with a cordes fuel system could do what I am doing.

it is raining and I am still working out the bugs with the new cam so I wont have any data to share but I do plan on pushing it soon and making it to the dyno so I should be able to report at what hp level the fuel pressure from just the boosted zl1 pump starts to fall off.
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dropped a valve in the 6.2. now running a drop in rods and piston 5.3
best et 5.83@121 with the 5.3 http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=465472
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Old 03-17-2018, 09:15 AM   #2
Dysan911

 
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Not sure if followed exactly what you asked about the JMS but mine is setup to go 17.48 Volts at WOT. When I hit 3/4 throttle it starts ramping voltage up. I am running the ZL1 intank FP though (if that matters).
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Old 03-17-2018, 09:48 AM   #3
parish8

 
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Originally Posted by Dysan911 View Post
Not sure if followed exactly what you asked about the JMS but mine is setup to go 17.48 Volts at WOT. When I hit 3/4 throttle it starts ramping voltage up. I am running the ZL1 intank FP though (if that matters).
Ok. So you can run 17.5 volts through the fpcm. I knew you could bump it some but not goto 22 volts.
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dropped a valve in the 6.2. now running a drop in rods and piston 5.3
best et 5.83@121 with the 5.3 http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=465472
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Old 03-19-2018, 09:34 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by parish8 View Post
Ok. So you can run 17.5 volts through the fpcm. I knew you could bump it some but not goto 22 volts.
I have run them at 18v. So far without issues.

On the Mustang side, if you run pumps at 22v they flow about the same as 14.5 volts (due to cavitating the pump) So the 18v setting seems to be best.
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Old 03-19-2018, 11:46 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by ProCharger View Post
I have run them at 18v. So far without issues.

On the Mustang side, if you run pumps at 22v they flow about the same as 14.5 volts (due to cavitating the pump) So the 18v setting seems to be best.
You have me curious now. I am going to try and run a flow test at various voltages. No point in hitting it with 22 volts if it doesn’t flow more fuel.
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dropped a valve in the 6.2. now running a drop in rods and piston 5.3
best et 5.83@121 with the 5.3 http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=465472
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Old 03-19-2018, 12:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parish8 View Post
You have me curious now. I am going to try and run a flow test at various voltages. No point in hitting it with 22 volts if it doesn’t flow more fuel.
yeah or make the fuel that much hotter unnecessarily.
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Old 03-19-2018, 03:06 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parish8 View Post
You have me curious now. I am going to try and run a flow test at various voltages. No point in hitting it with 22 volts if it doesn’t flow more fuel.
even 18 was over on some pumps (meaning some flowed better at 16.5-17.5)
before cavitation happened.

Just seems to depend on pump inlet style, sock flow, and bucket shape.

Good luck!
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Old 03-20-2018, 08:31 AM   #8
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Has anybody found it needed to drill holes in the bucket?
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Old 03-20-2018, 10:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parish8 View Post
my added inline pumps are not giving me as much fuel as I had hoped. one should take me to my current hp but I have to run both. also I have to turn the first pump on very early like around 100kpa for it to be spooled up for when the boost comes on. I could have reworked my aux fuel system, maybe with some better pumps and I may but I decided to try the voltage booster at 22volts and see how far that gets me.

since I have the secondary low side with a regulator return I am able to run the stock pump full speed bypassing the fpcm. I did a garage test and have it set up so below 80kpa it is 14.5v and by 120kpa it is 22 volts. I set my base pressure at 50psi.

one question I have always had, does the factory fpcm goto 100% duty cycle when it needs to? if not this will fix that issue.

if you run the jms and keep the fpcm I am told you have to limit the output voltage to 16.5volts. bypassing the fpcm allows me to run it all the way up to 22volt.

this set up wouldn't work for very many people. you need to have a fuel pressure regulator with a return line. I had this because of my 2nd fuel system. I think anyone with a cordes fuel system could do what I am doing.

it is raining and I am still working out the bugs with the new cam so I wont have any data to share but I do plan on pushing it soon and making it to the dyno so I should be able to report at what hp level the fuel pressure from just the boosted zl1 pump starts to fall off.
Base fuel pressure is really high, and I think that is your issue as to why the zl1 pump is falling off.

I'm going to assume your regulator works of manifold pressure (as I don't know any other types of FPR, but then again that pump isn't going into injectors but rather a HPFP)... So I'm assuming you're hitting max of like 63-65 psi?

The fuel pump might just not like that high of a fuel pressure. IDK what the stock pump specs are but, that much base pressure is a lot for smaller pumps in my experience, and some pumps have a built in like bypass system for high pressure.

That voltage too is really high. So it might be having some weird effects there. I've never heard of someone running more than 18~v

Honestly I think the best low side solution is just running a sumped dual pump with fpr. Two of whatever pump you want really should be enough. I'd settle for 044's if you don't mind noise, or dw300's or 340 or whatever 400. I probably wouldn't settle for dual 255's personally, but they could do the job too. 044's are great at high pressure.
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Old 03-21-2018, 07:52 AM   #10
parish8

 
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My zl1 pump is flowing what I would expect. It is my aux fuel system that isn’t performing as well as I had hoped. I am running 2 DW350iL pumps. They should be good for about 300lph at 70psi. That should be around 500hp each on e85. I am seeing more like 200hp each. I am pretty sure it is the style of pump combined with the pump location. These are not positive displacement pumps and I am asking them to pull the fuel a little ways. I will attach a pic of my set up. I suspect a gear pump or twin screw pump would help considerably.

I will flow test the zl1 pump at various voltages before I settle on my exact settings.
Attached Images
  
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dropped a valve in the 6.2. now running a drop in rods and piston 5.3
best et 5.83@121 with the 5.3 http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=465472
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Old 03-21-2018, 07:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parish8 View Post
My zl1 pump is flowing what I would expect. It is my aux fuel system that isn’t performing as well as I had hoped. I am running 2 DW350iL pumps. They should be good for about 300lph at 70psi. That should be around 500hp each on e85. I am seeing more like 200hp each. I am pretty sure it is the style of pump combined with the pump location. These are not positive displacement pumps and I am asking them to pull the fuel a little ways. I will attach a pic of my set up. I suspect a gear pump or twin screw pump would help considerably.

I will flow test the zl1 pump at various voltages before I settle on my exact settings.
So looks like you have -6 to and from each line to the pump?

What voltage are you running to the 350il's?


Also just curious you used an AN bulkhead in the gas tank, what did you use to seal it?

I don't see anything wrong with how you set it up. I would imagine it flows great. Did you just T the two AUX lines into the oem line??
You're probably right in that it's something to do with the pump design. You could always swap them out... 044's are my recommendation. Popular inline pump
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Old 03-21-2018, 10:33 PM   #12
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Dam Parish do you sleep or have a family? Ha that looks brilliant but what would I expect from you. Nice
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Old 03-21-2018, 10:40 PM   #13
parish8

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boostednut View Post
So looks like you have -6 to and from each line to the pump?

What voltage are you running to the 350il's?


Also just curious you used an AN bulkhead in the gas tank, what did you use to seal it?

I don't see anything wrong with how you set it up. I would imagine it flows great. Did you just T the two AUX lines into the oem line??
You're probably right in that it's something to do with the pump design. You could always swap them out... 044's are my recommendation. Popular inline pump
Seems like I used -8 for everything. The fittings are just an to npt. Can’t remember the sealant but it is what they use in the cordes kit. No booster on the extra pumps. I think the 044 pumps are a similar design, the feed line goes up and hits the port injection rails and t’s off to a t in the stock fuel line. Basically it all ties together under the hood(stock fuel system to the added fuel system).
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dropped a valve in the 6.2. now running a drop in rods and piston 5.3
best et 5.83@121 with the 5.3 http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=465472
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Old 03-21-2018, 10:46 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by laynlo15 View Post
Dam Parish do you sleep or have a family? Ha that looks brilliant but what would I expect from you. Nice
I did this fuel system last year, it isn’t performing as expected and this is why I did the voltage booster on the stock pump.

I went for a little drive tonight and got to my precious boost level with just the intank pump. I would estimate a solid 750rwhp on e75 from just the voltage boosted zl1 pump. It wasn’t falling off yet either. I will still do a flow test just for fun.

Time. Omg it is a bitch finding time to work on the car. Often I can get out in the garage after the 5 year old goes to bed but getting out to do some tuning is difficult.
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dropped a valve in the 6.2. now running a drop in rods and piston 5.3
best et 5.83@121 with the 5.3 http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=465472
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