[CAM-FIFTY]

Originally Posted by Expunge

As much as it pains me.. GM is in the right.

I'm not surprised a bit, every business has a right to protect themselves. GM had to draw a line somewhere and they did at zero mods.

And same is true for all other industries, try getting Dell/Apple to honor warranty on a mod'd product of theirs.

[Evolvedx27]

I think we should take a look over at c7 zo6 forums and see what's going on before we make any claims or decisions

[crabman]

I pursued an M&M action in the real world against Chrysler. Lets start with the dealership...

Your dealership is not in possession of your warranty, nor are you. The dealership acting as the manufacturers agent is authorized to act in some cases and in others they are not. In general if it's expensive your dealer cannot order parts or be paid for labor until the warranty work is approved by a manufacture representative. This rep is there to guard the gate, not to sell cars, and they aren't known for their mercy. If they decide the warranty will not be honored for whatever reason you're in a bad place. This because of something you all know and understand, possession is 9/10s of the law and neither you or your dealer are in possession of your warranty. It's the first important point to understand in a lot of ways. The OEM is not responsible for whatever claims the dealer made about what will or wont be covered. No amount of you saying the dealer told you it will be covered will change that fact. You can of course take that up with the dealer but you best have something in writing because "liar liar pants on fire" doesn't work in civil court or at arbitration. It also means that just as when your big brother took you favorite toy from you when you were kids you cant get it back until your parents come home. It doesn't matter that it was yours and he took it, possession is his until something changes that fact. So it is with your broke down car. Lets say you lunch a motor and you've got headers installed. That rep comes in and denies warranty coverage for the repair. You can jump up and down all you want, yell Moss/Mag at the top of your lungs, doesn't matter. You were never in possession of your warranty and wont be at that point until you follow a process that can be quite long and expensive. In the meantime you stay broke down or come out of pocket until such time as you complete whatever route you take toward getting the coverage.

Then you need to consider how it goes down in court. The M&M act does have language in it that states warranty cant be denied because of the installation of aftermarket parts unless those parts caused or contributed to the failure or is disallowed in the written warranty if legal in that locale. You might think this means they have to prove something but the reality is quite different. If you go to court they are going to show up with a whole bunch of charts, graphs, etc that they take from stock and adapt to your particular case. You must present evidence refuting them or that truth is taken as THE truth, you will in effect be in the position of proving you're innocent.

The M&M act does provide for the ability to ask for fees but in no way guarantees them even if you win. I won but did not get fees.

Other things I recall, your warranty can't be voided in total outside of a few specific circumstances that don't typically apply to mods. Odo tampering, salvage title, etc. What you face is a denial of coverage on a case by case basis or possibly the voiding of your drivetrain warranty in the case of power adders. Your warranty otherwise remains in effect.

I'm not telling you folks this to rain on anyones parade. I've probably done more mods than most anyone here but a person should be aware of what they're getting into if things go bad. Over on the corvetteforum they say that a person should make a gut call on being capable and willing to be their own warranty station before they go ahead with mods. I've both left things alone and modded after going through the crap I did with Chrysler. I have to admit it's changed my way of thinking, I no longer let fly without concern. With my E92 for example I decided I didn't want to write a check for a 25k motor. I could have done it but in truth there would have been tears staining that check. I almost certainly never would have had to write that check because the mods I was considering were quite mild and few had problems. Thats the thing, it's not like most will face a warranty denial on a major item due to minor performance mods, it's a question of whether you are willing to risk being the one poor soul that got unlucky. Maybe you are, maybe you aren't but you should ask the question before you proceed.

[fradaj]

From what I read they were more concerned about a tuned ECM than a K&N filter as the probable cause.

[Toons]

I think it is also about the price risk. On my 2010, a $36,000 car, I was willing to mod it up with CAI, headers, tune, etc because my risk was within reason. But with at $65,000 ZL1 I'm thinking it makes sense to be cautious. By the way, I've never had a day of trouble with my 2010.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by crabman

I pursued an M&M action in the real world against Chrysler. Lets start with the dealership...

Your dealership is not in possession of your warranty, nor are you. The dealership acting as the manufacturers agent is authorized to act in some cases and in others they are not. In general if it's expensive your dealer cannot order parts or be paid for labor until the warranty work is approved by a manufacture representative. This rep is there to guard the gate, not to sell cars, and they aren't known for their mercy. If they decide the warranty will not be honored for whatever reason you're in a bad place. This because of something you all know and understand, possession is 9/10s of the law and neither you or your dealer are in possession of your warranty. It's the first important point to understand in a lot of ways. The OEM is not responsible for whatever claims the dealer made about what will or wont be covered. No amount of you saying the dealer told you it will be covered will change that fact. You can of course take that up with the dealer but you best have something in writing because "liar liar pants on fire" doesn't work in civil court or at arbitration. It also means that just as when your big brother took you favorite toy from you when you were kids you cant get it back until your parents come home. It doesn't matter that it was yours and he took it, possession is his until something changes that fact. So it is with your broke down car. Lets say you lunch a motor and you've got headers installed. That rep comes in and denies warranty coverage for the repair. You can jump up and down all you want, yell Moss/Mag at the top of your lungs, doesn't matter. You were never in possession of your warranty and wont be at that point until you follow a process that can be quite long and expensive. In the meantime you stay broke down or come out of pocket until such time as you complete whatever route you take toward getting the coverage.

Then you need to consider how it goes down in court. The M&M act does have language in it that states warranty cant be denied because of the installation of aftermarket parts unless those parts caused or contributed to the failure or is disallowed in the written warranty if legal in that locale. You might think this means they have to prove something but the reality is quite different. If you go to court they are going to show up with a whole bunch of charts, graphs, etc that they take from stock and adapt to your particular case. You must present evidence refuting them or that truth is taken as THE truth, you will in effect be in the position of proving you're innocent.

The M&M act does provide for the ability to ask for fees but in no way guarantees them even if you win. I won but did not get fees.

Other things I recall, your warranty can't be voided in total outside of a few specific circumstances that don't typically apply to mods. Odo tampering, salvage title, etc. What you face is a denial of coverage on a case by case basis or possibly the voiding of your drivetrain warranty in the case of power adders. Your warranty otherwise remains in effect.

I'm not telling you folks this to rain on anyones parade. I've probably done more mods than most anyone here but a person should be aware of what they're getting into if things go bad. Over on the corvetteforum they say that a person should make a gut call on being capable and willing to be their own warranty station before they go ahead with mods. I've both left things alone and modded after going through the crap I did with Chrysler. I have to admit it's changed my way of thinking, I no longer let fly without concern. With my E92 for example I decided I didn't want to write a check for a 25k motor. I could have done it but in truth there would have been tears staining that check. I almost certainly never would have had to write that check because the mods I was considering were quite mild and few had problems. Thats the thing, it's not like most will face a warranty denial on a major item due to minor performance mods, it's a question of whether you are willing to risk being the one poor soul that got unlucky. Maybe you are, maybe you aren't but you should ask the question before you proceed.

Thank you for posting this...in all sincerity.

Not for making one point, or another...or raining on anybody's parade. But this is the first personal account I've read with experience going through the mysterious "process", and it was written so well.

[Nor Cal ZL1]

Originally Posted by CAM-FIFTY

My advise, don't believe everything that you read in enthusiasts forums...go google and read that US Code... no where does it state anything like that.

There is a long thread in Camaro5 where GM denied someone power-train warranty because of the catch can and couple of other mods. Owner there had a talk with GM execs and he then had to fix the engine on his own dime.

Exactly. The difference is an aftermarket replacement part, or an aftermarket modification. Two different situations. I remember that thread, and though it was BS on GM's stance,that the catch can caused the failire, it was a modification to the stock set up that allowed them to not only wiggle out of the repair( which is well known LS3 oil pump relief valve issue, with a tsb), but also wiped the warranty from the entire drivetrain.

Sad story really, it could have possibly not occured if the dealer never started the engine to diagnose a 0 oil pressure tow in. Dealer wipes out crank bearings etc, calls GM. GM requests engine bay picture, sees catch can, voids warranty on powertrain. Dude got his car back torn down, and a tear down bill, on a 11000 mile LS3.

As always it is mod at your own risk, or read the warranty language VERY carefully. Would I not agree that a simple, or even beneficial mod should void a warranty..... but it can....

[OminouSS]

That was a legit read Crabman. I feel like I've analyzed your story on another forum but cannot remember the stage. Anyway, you articulate the experience well and it brings valuable insight to what has thus far been speculation and common sense guessing. Problem with that tactic is that it is not common at all. Thank you.

[Childs Play]

Originally Posted by BOWTIEBOB

Don't want to be controversial here but Chevrolet is free to make any statements they want. I think they are just trying to move people away from the aftermarket and toward Chevrolet performance items.

Of course one must keep in mind that any dealer or manufacturer can always challenge a warranty claim. However, the legal burden of proof is on them (Warrantor) to prove a causal relationship, not just a proximal incidence between the aftermarket modification and the failure.Regardless of any manufacturer warranty claim policies, they must follow federal law governing such matters. Therefore, without bias and for informational purposes only*, I bring to your attention (in part) the Magnuson- Moss Warranty Act:

The problem is, that people seem to misunderstand what this act actually does. Also, GM knows what they're doing 99% of the time when they deny a warranty claim.

No, it doesn't protect you from adding a custom intake, or adding a catch can, or removing the cats, or tuning the car just because...

It protects you from changing out OEM parts with a different brand OEM part. AKA, you buy a 'Brand B' oil filter instead of the 'Brand A' Chevy uses.

It doesn't cover you customizing your vehicle with aftermarket parts, say like a catch can, and then saying they have to cover your car because there's no way a catch can could cause an oil pump to go out. I promise you that if they want to deny you a warranty claim because of something like that, they can and will. Could they possibly ignore that and fix it? Sure, but they could also deny it. It's happened.

I've had friends tell me, oh who cares if you tune the car, it's still under warranty because of the MMW Act. No... It's not. And you're in for a real eye opener when you stroll into that dealership waving that in their face.

Now lets say you install custom trim in your car and add an aftermarket spoiler. After that your engine grenades... They couldn't deny your claim because of that.

[BradfordCamaro]

"It is Now confirmed"??? A tech note from last summer? Lol. Hahahaha.
Sure whatever.

Lame Click bait title.

Seems to be a trend lately. Intentionally putting a title or topic that has nothing to do with the info contained

[NB2017ZL1]

Originally Posted by GTgamo

Ok, so the circumstances might be a grey area but it is now confirmed, that Chevrolet can deny warranty based upon aftermarket K&N air filter - (wth?) Please see page 2

That sucks. Guess my idea of ROTO-FAB is out until warranty is expired.

[CAM-FIFTY]

Originally Posted by crabman

I pursued an M&M action in the real world against Chrysler...........

Hey thanks for chiming in with your experience. Yours is the first one I read with real court experience involving this law. Would you mind sharing a few more details? What was the issue with your car and what reason Chrysler gave you to refuse the warranty? And what clause of MMWA did court cite to uphold your warranty claim? This will put a lot in right perspective.
Thank you!