[sonnydurden]

Originally Posted by NASTY99Z28

You guys are crazy if you think a lt4 in the next camaro will beat a hellcat. The vette can't even beat it in a straight line so what makes you think a heavier camaro will? Now the next gt500 will be the car to watch if they make it. With mrc,irs, and probably 700ish it will be a crazy car.

A ZO6 will destroy a Hellcat.. And the Camaro will not be heavier. They confirmed that.. How track ready is the Hellcat?

[Jontall]

The Hellcat is a tank and it needs a redesign. The motor can stay though.

[DenverTaco07]

GM is in the WAR, but maybe not the horsepower war that so many are focused on. GM is more interested in producing a performance car that can outperform the others - what performance means to them and what it means to Dodge appear to be different.

I think GM and Ford are in the same war, Dodge is fighting its own.

[SuperSound]

Dodge is fighting a war to keep from being sold again.

[High Magnitude]

Originally Posted by Number 3

If GM could sell more cars for having 708 HP then maybe.

But until you see a GIANT uptick in Fiat sales for having 707 HP in a couple of models then I don't see the value in chasing a number.

Now if you go to the Full Size Truck HD segment, all 3 are chasing HP and Torque and payload numbers. Those lead to sales.

The hellcat did earn dodge A LOT of attention. And well deserved i think. it's a feat to make a 60k car with more hp than the aventador. and attention is worth a lot because vw takes a loss on bugatti but still makes them bc they get vw attention. source: http://jalopnik.com/volkswagen-loses...bug-1426504241

[High Magnitude]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

GM is in the WAR, but maybe not the horsepower war that so many are focused on. GM is more interested in producing a performance car that can outperform the others - what performance means to them and what it means to Dodge appear to be different.

I think GM and Ford are in the same war, Dodge is fighting its own.

Not necessarily, in 09, the ZR1 made 631 hp and people thought the hp war was over. then came the gt500 with 662 hp. now you have the hellcat with a staggering 707 hp. the competition has been going on for a while.

[LesserO2Evils]

Idk why anyone would knock the Hellcat? Do I like it? No. Would I own one? HELL NO(same goes for ANY Dodge product). Do I respect it? Hell YEA! Why WOULDNT YOU? Its 700+ HP out of a production vehicle. Thats all that needs to be said. We NEED vehicles like this to keep the pressure on otherwise lazy manufacturers. Competition is a win/win for EVERYONE. Remember, that compitition is what gave some of yall your ZL1s.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by LesserO2Evils

Idk why anyone would knock the Hellcat? Do I like it? No. Would I own one? HELL NO(same goes for ANY Dodge product). Do I respect it? Hell YEA! Why WOULDNT YOU? Its 700+ HP out of a production vehicle. Thats all that needs to be said. We NEED vehicles like this to keep the pressure on otherwise lazy manufacturers. Competition is a win/win for EVERYONE. Remember, that compitition is what gave some of yall your ZL1s.

But at the same time it's the kind of archaic thinking that almost made the muscle car disappear. Adding power to car unable to utilize it. The ZR1 at least is capable of putting it's power to use in something other than a straight line unlike the GT500 and Hellcat. Don't get me wrong I would to drive one, but would never own it because it's overkill. The general consensus from outside the US of the muscle car is that they incapable of handling well. The 1LE, Z/28, and Mustang Track Packs have proven that is not the case, but they don't get as much attention. I can tell you from the BMW forums I used to frequent, most are in denial that a 1LE Camaro is faster around the track than a M4 simply b/c it's a muscle car. That's the stigma that cars like the Hellcat produce.

[LesserO2Evils]

SuperSound, I know what you are getting at, however, I would encourage you to do some research. Im hearing people complain about these high HP cars and their handling. While the EARLY GT500s left some to be desired in the handling dept(due to being nose heavy), any of the 2011+ cars are 1g cars. And the Hellcat is close. Neither the GT500 or the Hellcat are a mishandling slouch. Your example was applicable in a time of lesser quality expectations, but this is not the 60s. And regarding the ZL1, the GT500 actually TROUNCED it in all catagories, short of braking. I love GM, but anyone can watch the review and tell it was a BS call. Cars like the Z28 and Boss 302 will up the handling demands of consumers. Cars like the Hellcat and GT500 will up the power demand. This is what evolves our beloved cars into better machines year after year.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by LesserO2Evils

SuperSound, I know what you are getting at, however, I would encourage you to do some research. Im hearing people complain about these high HP cars and their handling. While the EARLY GT500s left some to be desired in the handling dept(due to being nose heavy), any of the 2011+ cars are 1g cars. And the Hellcat is close. Neither the GT500 or the Hellcat are a mishandling slouch. Your example was applicable in a time of lesser quality expectations, but this is not the 60s. And regarding the ZL1, the GT500 actually TROUNCED it in all catagories, short of braking. I love GM, but anyone can watch the review and tell it was a BS call. Cars like the Z28 and Boss 302 will up the handling demands of consumers. Cars like the Hellcat and GT500 will up the power demand. This is what evolves our beloved cars into better machines year after year.

Might want to take a look at actual lap times not just skidpad. Here are some examples:

#8 2:50.7 CHEVROLET CORVETTE ZR1 LL3 2/12
#10 2:50.9 CHEVROLET CAMARO Z/28 LL3 10/14
#17 2:53.8 CHEVROLET CORVETTE STINGRAY LL2 10/14
#25 2:57.5 CHEVROLET CAMARO ZL1 LL2 2/13
#38 3.00.6 FORD SHELBY GT500 LL3 2/13
#39 3:00.7 BMW M4 LL3 10/14
#45 3:01.5 CHEVROLET CAMARO SS 1LE LL2 2/13
#56 3:04.0 FORD MUSTANG SHELBY GT500 LL2 2/11

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...L3-SHELBYGT500

Don't think the Hellcat has made an appearance at VIR yet. I'm not seeing where GT500 is all that impressive on the track. The 1LE with way less HP is 1 second behind...on a 4 mile track. Obviously HP is not helping it, but I wouldn't say it's a handling slouch either. Just that the rest of the world doesn't see the benefit of all that power. Hence the disbelief that one is actually well balanced. Also I referred to the ZR1 Corvette, not the ZL1 but both were faster than the GT500.

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by High Magnitude

Not necessarily, in 09, the ZR1 made 631 hp and people thought the hp war was over. then came the gt500 with 662 hp. now you have the hellcat with a staggering 707 hp. the competition has been going on for a while.

I'm not saying GM isn't interested in HP, they are, but it isn't their sole focus.

[SPCBA]

Originally Posted by LesserO2Evils

And regarding the ZL1, the GT500 actually TROUNCED it in all catagories, short of braking. I love GM, but anyone can watch the review and tell it was a BS call.

Wait what? Damn bud some fact checks are required. Facebook isn't a viable reliable peer reviewed source. Trounced.... Lmfao

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by SPCBA

Wait what? Damn bud some fact checks are required. Facebook isn't a viable reliable peer reviewed source. Trounced.... Lmfao

yeah...GT500 Trounced the ZL1 at Nurburgring too...didn't you see their posted times...

oh wait, there is no GT500 in the posted times...woops sorry.

[sonnydurden]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

yeah...GT500 Trounced the ZL1 at Nurburgring too...didn't you see their posted times...

oh wait, there is no GT500 in the posted times...woops sorry.

Exactly!! Ford will post the times of their Focus and not their GT500 at the Ring???.. Sounds like they didn't get the result they wanted!