[RenegadeXR]

Originally Posted by Doc

A "younger brother" to the Camaro that starts at around $18,950 with a 4 cyl engine and maxed out with a V6 would be about $23k + tax. It should be sporty but not a track car like the Camaro is.

...

The foreign car companies already hit this target market

Can you please cite a specific example, then? I saw the FR-S was mentioned (not by the OP) but even this begins at $26k. If you're going to make this claim, back it up.

Sub $20 price point, sports coupe design… drawing a blank here honestly. Can't name a single car that matches both these criteria.

[amerhash28]

Originally Posted by RenegadeXR

Can you please cite a specific example, then? I saw the FR-S was mentioned (not by the OP) but even this begins at $26k. If you're going to make this claim, back it up.

yes thats exactly what I mean.if FR-S with absolutely no space or options cost's 26k as you say and the big and beautiful camaro with all this options coming up standard + the 4 cyl cost's about 27k then a small camaro + less options + 4 cyl would cost about 20-24k.now thats not a bad idea at all.i would pay that much for a car with pure american design and fair power.

[iPODFAN11]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

GM ditched the Camaro LS for the 6th gen, presumably due to lack of profit/sales. I can't see them making an all new car to fill that role.



It doesn't. Base Camaro starts at $27,695.

$26,695 with destination, not 27.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by ZWA SS

A sporty turbo 4 or v6, rear wheel drive. Call it Nova. Throw in a LT1 SS Nova.
Basically a Cruze rwd.

Originally Posted by jaymsu

Time for Cruze SS?
(Like cobalt SS)

I personally want to see Solstice / Sky return.

Yeah that's the idea.

Originally Posted by DGthe3

GM ditched the Camaro LS for the 6th gen, presumably due to lack of profit/sales. I can't see them making an all new car to fill that role.



It doesn't. Base Camaro starts at $27,695.

Actually it's $26,695 including DFC. If you just want it with an automatic (and the "base" 4 cyl model isn't even available until next year) you can add $1,495 to that so a base auto starts at $28,190 which, with tax and license etc. means $30k.

Originally Posted by DREWZ SS

GM is in it for the money and a "younger brother" is not money

Actually that depends on profit margin and sales velocity. The money could be there if done right.

Originally Posted by RenegadeXR

Can you please cite a specific example, then? I saw the FR-S was mentioned (not by the OP) but even this begins at $26k. If you're going to make this claim, back it up.

Sub $20 price point, sports coupe design… drawing a blank here honestly. Can't name a single car that matches both these criteria.

The Mazda 3 is a pretty nice car; especially for the price. And you'll find other "sporty" coupes from Honda, Toyota, Kia, Hyundai etc. that go anywhere from the low 19's to $23k/$24k. But I'm actually talking about Chevy creating a new segment more or less rather than compete with these other cars.

Originally Posted by iPODFAN11

$26,695 with destination, not 27.

That's for a base 4 cyl 1LT with manual trans and no extras at all. Add a V6 which used to be the base engine, and add an auto trans with no other options you're looking at a $30k car. And that's for a 1LT.

The more I think of it, I believe what I'm really looking for is a true pony car. The Camaro of today is a tremendous car but it's evolved into a high-performance sports GT and the price reflects that. It's nowhere near the original premise of a pony car. What if Chevy went back to the original formula; sporty styling on a sedan chassis with off-the-shelf parts? They could even make it look like a slightly more modern version of the original 1967 Camaro. If I could buy something like that with a V6 for $20k-$21k I'd be all in without hesitation.

As popular as certain retro styles are, if Chevy goes back to the 1967 pony car idea with a slightly updated style based on the '67 Camaro and starts the price at $18,995 with a 4 cyl... I think they might be surprised at the response. Keep it simple and clean; don't load it down with all kinds of expensive uber tech. If something like that sold in high volume which I believe it would due to the appeal and price point, they'd make their money and introduce the newer generations to Chevrolet as their brand instead of a foreign brand.

We've got some really talented artists on this forum. Maybe one or more of them could work up some sketches/renders of an updated '67 Camaro body style to get an idea of what this might look like?

[SS22]

Chevy considered this a few years ago when they showed two small sporty concepts, the Code 130 and Tru 140. Both would have been smaller and less expensive options. Gm saw the Subaru and Scion twins' sales go flat so I guess they decided there wasn't enough of a market. Though why Chevy hasn't had a small coupe since Cobalt is beyond me. Part of the reason I bought a V6 Camaro is that is Chevy's only (affordable) coupe.

[shaffe]

IMO I think chevy needs something to compete with the Fiesta ST and Focus ST. Everyone I have talked to that has one of those cars says that they are blasts to drive

[Doc]

Originally Posted by SS22

Chevy considered this a few years ago when they showed two small sporty concepts, the Code 130 and Tru 140. Both would have been smaller and less expensive options. Gm saw the Subaru and Scion twins' sales go flat so I guess they decided there wasn't enough of a market. Though why Chevy hasn't had a small coupe since Cobalt is beyond me. Part of the reason I bought a V6 Camaro is that is Chevy's only (affordable) coupe.

The problem with those were the designs were crap; trying to design American versions of Japanese cars which, would not succeed because the Japanese do a better job of their style than anybody else and they're already in our market.

Imagine a "new" American design pony car with a V6 that doesn't look like a wannabe Japanese, German, Italian or any other foreign car. There was a reason the 5th Gen Camaro hit the marketplace like a thunderbolt and sold like crazy year after year. It was a beautiful American design that didn't look like anything else on the market. Do that GM. An updated '67 Camaro pony car that looks like an American design. Try it just as a concept car and see what the reaction is.

[RenegadeXR]

Originally Posted by Doc

The Mazda 3 is a pretty nice car; especially for the price. And you'll find other "sporty" coupes from Honda, Toyota, Kia, Hyundai etc. that go anywhere from the low 19's to $23k/$24k. But I'm actually talking about Chevy creating a new segment more or less rather than compete with these other cars.

I just completely fail to see what market segment you're referring to. The Mazda 3 has sporty design, but a sports coupe it is not. It's an economy sedan with a Mazda badge. If you want to see a performance coupe, look no further than the Miata, and then you're right back at $25k.

The Mazda 3's direct competitor in the Chevy lineup is clearly the Cruze. Both sell for somewhere in a $16k range and churn out a paltry 150HP. The Mazda is definitely sexier, but a Cruze with a body kit isn't going to be hailed as anything even remotely comparable to a Camaro.

You know what American car brand has already attempted to sell a $16k econo-sports car with about 150HP? Dodge. Incase you haven't noticed, they've been selling a Fiat under the old "Dart" nameplate and tried to give it more aggressive styling. It hasn't exactly been a resounding success.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by RenegadeXR

I just completely fail to see what market segment you're referring to. The Mazda 3 has sporty design, but a sports coupe it is not. It's an economy sedan with a Mazda badge. If you want to see a performance coupe, look no further than the Miata, and then you're right back at $25k.

The Mazda 3's direct competitor in the Chevy lineup is clearly the Cruze. Both sell for somewhere in a $16k range and churn out a paltry 150HP. The Mazda is definitely sexier, but a Cruze with a body kit isn't going to be hailed as anything even remotely comparable to a Camaro.

You know what American car brand has already attempted to sell a $16k econo-sports car with about 150HP? Dodge. Incase you haven't noticed, they've been selling a Fiat under the old "Dart" nameplate and tried to give it more aggressive styling. It hasn't exactly been a resounding success.

Agreed. The FR-S and BRZ are flat-lining, so obviously if the Japanese can't sell the idea to Americans not sure there is a "real" market for that formula. I think there is a market for a small sporty Chevy coupe/sedan with FWD/AWD under the price of a 1LT LTG.

[KaBoom1701]

I really think you guys are on to something though...

A base Camaro LS V4/V6 for around 20-22k would bring in a lot of younger kids to the market. I see far too many young kids driving imports because our cars are priced way too high.

Let them buy a base model and then mod there way up if they like or upgrade to high end models when they can. Most of these younger kids end up spending way too much money on mods and audio upgrades as is. But a base model Camaro for around 20-22k would hit the sweet spot for many of these buyers. And when the rebates hit maybe even bring the cost down to under 20k on last years year end sales.

Just wasted opportunity in my book

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by amerhash28

YES!

in my opinion,I believe that they shouldn't put the 4 cyl in the camaro at all.its a heavy lady so keep up with the V6 and V8 and use the 4 cyl for a new sporty coupe that can keep up with the toyota 86(known as FRS in your country)and 2.0 genesis coupe.but for some reason they don't want to take the risk and I can't blame them,its a very competitive market out there with a lot of "made to perform and cheap cars" like those I mentioned.they don't want the z28 nightmare happen again if you know what im saying.....

Heavy lady? WTF? Have you driven an ATS with the 2.0T? It's a mid 5 second car to 60. Plenty fast and plenty fun.

You won't see a sporty coupe for a while, maybe ever below the Camaro. Investment vs. sales potential vs. stealing sales from the bottom end of the Camaro spell disaster in the Chevy showroom.

Originally Posted by ZWA SS

A sporty turbo 4 or v6, rear wheel drive. Call it Nova. Throw in a LT1 SS Nova.
Basically a Cruze rwd.

Nope.

Originally Posted by jaymsu

Time for Cruze SS?
(Like cobalt SS)

I personally want to see Solstice / Sky return.

Cruze SS would be a nice car. May see it. But it would compete with the Buick then and steal it's sales.

As for the Solstice/Sky (having owned and loved a Sky Redline ) you probably won't see that disaster happen again. I could be wrong, but the original twins were parts bin specials and cheaped out to the max. And my Reline? Stickered for $36,000. For only $3,000 more I could get an Audi TT convertible at the time with a much better interior and fit and finish. But I was a GM employee at the time and that wasn't going to happen. Now???

Originally Posted by shaffe

IMO I think chevy needs something to compete with the Fiesta ST and Focus ST. Everyone I have talked to that has one of those cars says that they are blasts to drive

You probably spoke to the only one that actually own one LOL. I've talked with folks that have driven them and they are sweet, no doubt. But I doubt you would see a 200 hp Sonic, much more likely to see a 270 HP Cruze.

Originally Posted by KaBoom1701

I really think you guys are on to something though...

A base Camaro LS V4/V6 for around 20-22k would bring in a lot of younger kids to the market. I see far too many young kids driving imports because our cars are priced way too high.

Let them buy a base model and then mod there way up if they like or upgrade to high end models when they can. Most of these younger kids end up spending way too much money on mods and audio upgrades as is. But a base model Camaro for around 20-22k would hit the sweet spot for many of these buyers. And when the rebates hit maybe even bring the cost down to under 20k on last years year end sales.

Just wasted opportunity in my book

So you want a Camaro even cheaper than the 5th gen? That isn't going to happen. Certainly at that price point you would see more buyers, but I hate to tell you what car you end up with when you design to be profitable at $20k vs $26k....Solstice/Sky cough cough.....

Besides, wasn't the base price for the V6? I didn't think they announced the price for the 2.0T as that isn't out til early next year.

[90503]

2016 Camaro Full Pricing (w/ options/packages) - - Eff. Start of Model Year Prod.
2016 MODEL YEAR VEHICLE PRICE
EFFECTIVE WITH START OF 2016 MODEL YEAR PRODUCTION

Base Model Prices

¨ 1AG37 Camaro 1LT $25,700.00 + DFC $995.00
¨ 1AH37 Camaro 2LT $29,800.00 + DFC $995.00
¨ 1AJ37 Camaro 1SS $36,300.00 + DFC $995.00
¨ 1AK37 Camaro 2SS $41,300.00 + DFC $995.00

Option Packages
Option Code Description List

¨ WRS RS Package $1,950.00
¨ Y3W Technology Package $800.00
¨ ZN2 2LT Convenience & Light Pack $2,800.00

Additional Options
Option Code Description List

Cooling Package
¨ Y4Q Heavy-Duty Cooling and Brake Package with WRS or RPO RTH (20" wheel) $485.00
¨ Y4Q Heavy-Duty Cooling and Brake Package without WRS or RPO RTH (20" wheel) $1,285.00

Engine:
¨ LGX 3.6L V6, DI, VVT $1,495.00




Looks to me like the V-6 is $1,495 extra on top of the 1LT and 2LT base prices shown....

[Red Chief]

I've had a crazy idea or two related to this.

One was to take a Harley engine and wrap it in a mini-Corvette styled 2-seat shell. Small, sleek and super light like a Lotus but with a completely badass chopper exhaust note. Interior options? Give me heat, AC and a USB port for my phone and I'll take care of the rest.

[Doc]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Heavy lady? WTF? Have you driven an ATS with the 2.0T? It's a mid 5 second car to 60. Plenty fast and plenty fun.

You won't see a sporty coupe for a while, maybe ever below the Camaro. Investment vs. sales potential vs. stealing sales from the bottom end of the Camaro spell disaster in the Chevy showroom.



Nope.



Cruze SS would be a nice car. May see it. But it would compete with the Buick then and steal it's sales.

As for the Solstice/Sky (having owned and loved a Sky Redline ) you probably won't see that disaster happen again. I could be wrong, but the original twins were parts bin specials and cheaped out to the max. And my Reline? Stickered for $36,000. For only $3,000 more I could get an Audi TT convertible at the time with a much better interior and fit and finish. But I was a GM employee at the time and that wasn't going to happen. Now???



You probably spoke to the only one that actually own one LOL. I've talked with folks that have driven them and they are sweet, no doubt. But I doubt you would see a 200 hp Sonic, much more likely to see a 270 HP Cruze.



So you want a Camaro even cheaper than the 5th gen? That isn't going to happen. Certainly at that price point you would see more buyers, but I hate to tell you what car you end up with when you design to be profitable at $20k vs $26k....Solstice/Sky cough cough.....

Besides, wasn't the base price for the V6? I didn't think they announced the price for the 2.0T as that isn't out til early next year.

If something is going to cannibalize one of your products, it had better be another one of your products. The Camaro is now no longer affordable for the entry-level buyer which means you no longer have a growing market base. That's not good.

The car you get when you design to be profitable at $20k is a pony car; not a sports GT which is what the Camaro has become. I honestly don't think there'd be that much cannibalization of the low end of the Camaro because the buyer who can just afford a $20k car cannot and will not buy a $30k+ car which is where the Camaro is now by the time you add tax, license and any kind of extra.

I'm not advocating an uber machine, a sports car to compete with Miata's or anything else. I'm talking about a basic, minimum frills sporty fun car like the original '67 Camaro (basically a re-issue of that style but with slightly modernized styling). The buyer who can afford that will mod it over time, and as they get older will become Camaro customers with fond memories of their first "pony" car. If Chevrolet doesn't cultivate a new base of customers that can grow the Camaro family beyond what they already have, they're facing diminishing returns like they did in the past until there's no longer a justifiable cost basis to keep making Camaros.

I'm not saying start going into production and hope they sell. I'm saying make a concept car or even just a concept render that can be viewed online. See what the reaction is.

Originally Posted by 90503

2016 Camaro Full Pricing (w/ options/packages) - - Eff. Start of Model Year Prod.
2016 MODEL YEAR VEHICLE PRICE
EFFECTIVE WITH START OF 2016 MODEL YEAR PRODUCTION

Base Model Prices

¨ 1AG37 Camaro 1LT $25,700.00 + DFC $995.00
¨ 1AH37 Camaro 2LT $29,800.00 + DFC $995.00
¨ 1AJ37 Camaro 1SS $36,300.00 + DFC $995.00
¨ 1AK37 Camaro 2SS $41,300.00 + DFC $995.00

Option Packages
Option Code Description List

¨ WRS RS Package $1,950.00
¨ Y3W Technology Package $800.00
¨ ZN2 2LT Convenience & Light Pack $2,800.00

Additional Options
Option Code Description List

Cooling Package
¨ Y4Q Heavy-Duty Cooling and Brake Package with WRS or RPO RTH (20" wheel) $485.00
¨ Y4Q Heavy-Duty Cooling and Brake Package without WRS or RPO RTH (20" wheel) $1,285.00

Engine:
¨ LGX 3.6L V6, DI, VVT $1,495.00




Looks to me like the V-6 is $1,495 extra on top of the 1LT and 2LT base prices shown....

Yeah that's the way I read it unless we're reading it wrong? If the 1AG37 1LT base model has a V6 to start with at that price, that changes everything. But then why list the V6 as $1,495 extra? Is there a way for anyone in the know to find out if we're mis-reading this?