[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

It's not that surprising. Ford has developed plenty of one off engines for the Mustang. They did the 5.4 in the 00 Cobra R and the 302 Roadrunner for the 12-13 BOSS 302 for example.

True, but the 5.4 had roots from the truck version and the Boss 302 was a derivative of the standard 302 in the GTs. So not like they were specifically designed and built from scratch for a particular application. Course who knows if the GT350s engine will trickle down. I wouldn't think so due to the FPC design not being the best for a wide market street car.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Ford has developed lots of one off engines for the mustang, how they do it I don't know. Maybe its easier for them do it with modular motors, I don't know how they do it, but they do. GM as far as my memory goes, hasnt made a one off engine for the camaro in a long time.


and again, Team Corvette tried to do it, and couldn't. What makes you think team Camaro is going to figure it out? I think it would be awesome if they did, but I seriously doubt they would.


And you answered your own question, the cars were originally built for racing and as many more experienced people here can tell you, a supercharged engine isn't exactly the best one to use for road racing.

1. Let's keep it focused on the last couple of generations. Building separate engines in the 60s and 70s, even the 80s is quite different than now.

2. Corvette team had a power target and couldn't meet it and pass emissions with a NA motor. I don't think Team Camaro needs 650hp to beat the GT350 with it's 520+hp. So there could be some designs the Corvette team rejected.

3. This is true, but you also don't have to deal with emissions in racing. The biggest reason manufactures have turned to FI in V8s. We all know it doesn't take a lot to make 600-800hp NA hp in aV8, but you won't do it, pass emissions, and be reliable enough for a production car.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

True, but the 5.4 had roots from the truck version and the Boss 302 was a derivative of the standard 302 in the GTs. So not like they were specifically designed and built from scratch for a particular application. Course who knows if the GT350s engine will trickle down. I wouldn't think so due to the FPC design not being the best for a wide market street car.

True, but the engines are still heavily modified from their original configuration.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the GT move up to the 5.2 with a CPC.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

True, but the engines are still heavily modified from their original configuration.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the GT move up to the 5.2 with a CPC.

And that would match Ford's history, develop an engine...then modify it for multiple applications. Might even make it's way into a truck at some point.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

1. Let's keep it focused on the last couple of generations. Building separate engines in the 60s and 70s, even the 80s is quite different than now.

2. Corvette team had a power target and couldn't meet it and pass emissions with a NA motor. I don't think Team Camaro needs 650hp to beat the GT350 with it's 520+hp. So there could be some designs the Corvette team rejected.

3. This is true, but you also don't have to deal with emissions in racing. The biggest reason manufactures have turned to FI in V8s. We all know it doesn't take a lot to make 600-800hp NA hp in aV8, but you won't do it, pass emissions, and be reliable enough for a production car.

1. Agreed

2. Agreed, but now if that engine doesn't need the HP that team corvette needed, is it going to be worth doing if its only a bit better than the LT1 but not as good as the LT4? Is it worth GMs development money to have an engine split the difference inbetween the two that would only be used in the Camaro? History says no chance. LSA was shared with the Cadillac, LS7 originally built for Corvette, LS3 shared with Corvette. Also given GM's history of engine sharing, I seriously doubt that an engine developed for Camaro would trickle "up" Into the Corvette. Bc then I think to myself, if this is good enough for the ultimate track camaro that weighs a couple hundred more pounds than a Corvette, why wasn't it good enough for the corvette?

[Bhobbs]

The issue is the Camaro needs an engine to counter the GT350. Whether or not the Corvette uses it should be irrelevant. If GM takes the Camaro seriously, then they need to act like it. Ford is developings engines like the 302 Roadrunner and 5.2 Voodoo and putting them in Mustangs that cost 50-60k so GM should easily be able to do the same but they don't. Even with the ultimate track capable $75k Camaro, GM didn't modify it or tune it to squeeze any more horsepower out of it.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by shaffe

1. Agreed

2. Agreed, but now if that engine doesn't need the HP that team corvette needed, is it going to be worth doing if its only a bit better than the LT1 but not as good as the LT4? Is it worth GMs development money to have an engine split the difference inbetween the two that would only be used in the Camaro? History says no chance. LSA was shared with the Cadillac, LS7 originally built for Corvette, LS3 shared with Corvette. Also given GM's history of engine sharing, I seriously doubt that an engine developed for Camaro would trickle "up" Into the Corvette. Bc then I think to myself, if this is good enough for the ultimate track camaro that weighs a couple hundred more pounds than a Corvette, why wasn't it good enough for the corvette?

Not trickle up to the Vette, but announce a new engine for the Vette and that it will power a Z/28. The engine might simply be a further modification of the LT1 (think LS1 to LS6). If the new Z/28 comes out a year after the 6th gen, I could see the Vette team justifying a power increase.Then maybe a year down the road it would trickle down to the SS. Again just speculation.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The issue is the Camaro needs an engine to counter the GT350. Whether or not the Corvette uses it should be irrelevant. If GM takes the Camaro seriously, then they need to act like it. Ford is developings engines like the 302 Roadrunner and 5.2 Voodoo and putting them in Mustangs that cost 50-60k so GM should easily be able to do the same but they don't. Even with the ultimate track capable $75k Camaro, GM didn't modify it or tune it to squeeze any more horsepower out of it.

Agreed. The question is will GM actually take the GT350 seriously and justify giving the Camaro the tools to beat it not just equal it.

[xgnxs]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Ford has developed lots of one off engines for the mustang, how they do it I don't know.

For a while the mustang was their top level performance car, only recently are we seeing the Ford GT come back, so they were basically designing engines for the mustang like GM was / is for the corvette. I don't think that'll really change (Ford designing engines just for the mustang) since the GT will be sold in such small quantities and for such a high price.

It would be nice if GM / Chevy would design something just for the camaro, (NA 550+ for the Z28?) but I don't know if we'll see it happen.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The issue is the Camaro needs an engine to counter the GT350. Whether or not the Corvette uses it should be irrelevant. If GM takes the Camaro seriously, then they need to act like it. Ford is developings engines like the 302 Roadrunner and 5.2 Voodoo and putting them in Mustangs that cost 50-60k so GM should easily be able to do the same but they don't. Even with the ultimate track capable $75k Camaro, GM didn't modify it or tune it to squeeze any more horsepower out of it.

Bhobbs has made my point, GM can, but in the past has not. That is where I am basing my Camaro wont get a specific engine argument from.

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Not trickle up to the Vette, but announce a new engine for the Vette and that it will power a Z/28. The engine might simply be a further modification of the LT1 (think LS1 to LS6). If the new Z/28 comes out a year after the 6th gen, I could see the Vette team justifying a power increase.Then maybe a year down the road it would trickle down to the SS. Again just speculation.

That I could see, maybe something along those lines. LS1 to LS6 (Good comparison I like that) that I can see, what I can't see is LS3 to LS7 just for the camaro.

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Agreed. The question is will GM actually take the GT350 seriously and justify giving the Camaro the tools to beat it not just equal it.

I am sure GM is up to the challenge, the question is what will they do for a power plant

Originally Posted by xgnxs

For a while the mustang was their top level performance car, only recently are we seeing the Ford GT come back, so they were basically designing engines for the mustang like GM was / is for the corvette. I don't think that'll really change (Ford designing engines just for the mustang) since the GT will be sold in such small quantities and for such a high price.

It would be nice if GM / Chevy would design something just for the camaro, (NA 550+ for the Z28?) but I don't know if we'll see it happen.

This ^

[fradaj]

There is a rumor about a TT V8 that is in the works with an estimated 560HP for Cadillac. Maybe it could eventually end up in a Camaro. Turbo's would be OK for a track car and not bad for the drag strip either.

[IOMike]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

LSA is just a detuned LS9.

Also the first gen Z06 is from back in 1963 or something.

LS9 was forged with a larger blower, over the LSA which is not forged. Its fuel system (pump, not injectors) allowed for more flow as well.

[Jeb114]

Due any of you remember GM was days away from Bankruptcy and Ford wasn't. GM can not throw money around with out positive sales. They went down that path once and it bit them. I love my Camaro but I own GM Stock and I am very critical about all those Z/28's sitting in lots unsold. Just the R&D on and engine are millions of millions of dollars. And if they are going to invest in a new engine they better sell more than 500 Cars. This HP war with the manufactures can not last long.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Jeb114

Due any of you remember GM was days away from Bankruptcy and Ford wasn't. GM can not throw money around with out positive sales. They went down that path once and it bit them. I love my Camaro but I own GM Stock and I am very critical about all those Z/28's sitting in lots unsold. Just the R&D on and engine are millions of millions of dollars. And if they are going to invest in a new engine they better sell more than 500 Cars. This HP war with the manufactures can not last long.

The R&D was already done on the LS7 years ago. Before the 5th generation Camaro was out.