[Corner carver]

Originally Posted by b0bsaget007

The 7670 spools a lot slower than the 7163 with only minor gains in hp at the very top end. Source.

Also, BorgWarner offers the T4 twin-scroll housing for the 6258 and up, so you could basically have any turbo larger or equal to the 6258 with the same manifold (although the 6258 and 6758 are not much of an upgrade over the stock turbo).

Man! Great comparison article! I've been looking for something just like that for a bit now to compare them.
I take back what I said, I would happily give up 15-25 peak horsepower for a quicker spooling turbo anyday... I was under the impression the hp delta was more like 60-80 hp

EFR 7163 for the win!
20hp is nothing some meth or nitrious won't make up

For guys just wanting that high rpm power after 4200rpm the 7670 takes over (great for drag),
Off the line though all else being equal the 7670 won't hold a candle to the 7163.... Look at the power difference between 3k and 4k!

[Jason@JacFab]

After a bit of researching, I'm thinking the 7163 G w/ the T4 flange is probably the way to go. It's the shortest of the three 7163 models I see listed on the BW website, which is good for packaging...

I had planned on the turbo header project at some point... But a big part of my wonders if it's really necessary? An adapter plate could easily be machined to bolt the T4 flange right onto the stock exhaust manifold, then just modify everything else to fit. Really wouldn't be that hard... But I also wonder what could be left on the table by doing that vs. a tubular header? I've been speaking to a guy off of the Caddy forum for quite a while now, he told me about a vendor that had done a custom BW EFR turbo install (didn't catch which model EFR turbo it was though), and it only made 365hp... But the question is... why?

[Corner carver]

Originally Posted by Jason@JacFab

After a bit of researching, I'm thinking the 7163 G w/ the T4 flange is probably the way to go. It's the shortest of the three 7163 models I see listed on the BW website, which is good for packaging...

I had planned on the turbo header project at some point... But a big part of my wonders if it's really necessary? An adapter plate could easily be machined to bolt the T4 flange right onto the stock exhaust manifold, then just modify everything else to fit. Really wouldn't be that hard... But I also wonder what could be left on the table by doing that vs. a tubular header? I've been speaking to a guy off of the Caddy forum for quite a while now, he told me about a vendor that had done a custom BW EFR turbo install (didn't catch which model EFR turbo it was though), and it only made 365hp... But the question is... why?

If you build it they will come... (tubular!)

...365whp would be a nice upgrade, I don't see the point of the expense that would've been incurred by doing a custom header/turbo package though... Surely that power level (or damn close) could've been achieved with a competent bolt on package and a tune?

To many questions...

[ChicagoTommy]

Originally Posted by Corner carver

If you build it they will come... (tubular!)

...365whp would be a nice upgrade, I don't see the point of the expense that would've been incurred by doing a custom header/turbo package though... Surely that power level (or damn close) could've been achieved with a competent bolt on package and a tune?

To many questions...

That was his point! They should have been over 400whp!

I'd love to see someone get to 365whp with tuning and bolt-on's. Are you including a re-wheel in your estimation of bolt-on's? Because that would make it way easier!

[ChicagoTommy]

Originally Posted by Jason@JacFab

After a bit of researching, I'm thinking the 7163 G w/ the T4 flange is probably the way to go. It's the shortest of the three 7163 models I see listed on the BW website, which is good for packaging...

I had planned on the turbo header project at some point... But a big part of my wonders if it's really necessary? An adapter plate could easily be machined to bolt the T4 flange right onto the stock exhaust manifold, then just modify everything else to fit. Really wouldn't be that hard... But I also wonder what could be left on the table by doing that vs. a tubular header? I've been speaking to a guy off of the Caddy forum for quite a while now, he told me about a vendor that had done a custom BW EFR turbo install (didn't catch which model EFR turbo it was though), and it only made 365hp... But the question is... why?

LT1350? ZZP? PM me I guess.

[Corner carver]

Originally Posted by ChicagoTommy

That was his point! They should have been over 400whp!

I'd love to see someone get to 365whp with tuning and bolt-on's. Are you including a re-wheel in your estimation of bolt-on's? Because that would make it way easier!

I understand his point lol, what I mean about the too many questions part is just that... i.e. was this JUST a manifold and perhaps a 'small' selection in the efr range? (with tuning obviously). Maybe this person spent their coin on the big ticket items first with ambitions to follow up with the supporting parts?

...about the other... In all honesty I'm only guessing, but now thinking about it...
It would be a considerable effort to squeeze another 120whp out of the stock turbo. I think airways into and out of the turbo would need to be optimised; also from the compressor forward to (and possibly including) the throttle body.
I'd upgrade the intercooler in that line up also (if possible without excess psi drop), but leave the intake manifold alone.
Beyond a good tune I still think E85/race gas would be required...

I think that is what I'd try with, just a guess as I've never done this
If you were close and needed the push, throw some meth and cutouts in there
If that wouldn't do it... Then I guess you're stuck

[Jason@JacFab]

Originally Posted by Corner carver

If you build it they will come... (tubular!)

...365whp would be a nice upgrade, I don't see the point of the expense that would've been incurred by doing a custom header/turbo package though... Surely that power level (or damn close) could've been achieved with a competent bolt on package and a tune?

To many questions...

I really think it would be hard to do with the stock wheels in the turbo.

Originally Posted by ChicagoTommy

LT1350? ZZP? PM me I guess.

Yes, lt1z350 is the one that told me that. I don't think it was the ZZP build, I'm assuming it was the other guy as that's who we were talking about at the time, but he didn't say. I've got an email in to him right now waiting to find out who built the setup.

[ChicagoTommy]

Originally Posted by Jason@JacFab

Yes, lt1z350 is the one that told me that. I don't think it was the ZZP build, I'm assuming it was the other guy as that's who we were talking about at the time, but he didn't say. I've got an email in to him right now waiting to find out who built the setup.

I didn't know there were any other EFR cars running around yet. PM me when you find out the details.

[Corner carver]

Originally Posted by ChicagoTommy

I didn't know there were any other EFR cars running around yet. PM me when you find out the details.

Did zzp ever release more info on their 2014 Sema build (ATS with an EFR 7163?)

Besides the announcement I can't find anything about the build...

[ChicagoTommy]

Originally Posted by Corner carver

Did zzp ever release more info on their 2014 Sema build (ATS with an EFR 7163?)

Besides the announcement I can't find anything about the build...

ZZP calls it a ZFR, because branding. Matt M is an employee of ZZP.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...y-2-0-ats.html

[ChicagoTommy]

Originally Posted by Jason@JacFab

After a bit of researching, I'm thinking the 7163 G w/ the T4 flange is probably the way to go. It's the shortest of the three 7163 models I see listed on the BW website, which is good for packaging...

I had planned on the turbo header project at some point... But a big part of my wonders if it's really necessary? An adapter plate could easily be machined to bolt the T4 flange right onto the stock exhaust manifold, then just modify everything else to fit. Really wouldn't be that hard... But I also wonder what could be left on the table by doing that vs. a tubular header? I've been speaking to a guy off of the Caddy forum for quite a while now, he told me about a vendor that had done a custom BW EFR turbo install (didn't catch which model EFR turbo it was though), and it only made 365hp... But the question is... why?

Or you can lop off the EFR flange and weld on a stock TD-04 flange. There are many ways to skin this cat.

[Corner carver]

Originally Posted by ChicagoTommy

ZZP calls it a ZFR, because branding. Matt M is an employee of ZZP.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...y-2-0-ats.html

Cool, thanks for the hook up... Sounds like you and I have similar goals for this platform judging from your posts there...
Also seems like my 'fantasy build' to get 365hp from the stock turbo wasn't too far off... Might land around 320-340hp, not bad for a guess I'd say...

[ChicagoTommy]

Originally Posted by Corner carver

Cool, thanks for the hook up... Sounds like you and I have similar goals for this platform judging from your posts there...
Also seems like my 'fantasy build' to get 365hp from the stock turbo wasn't too far off... Might land around 320-340hp, not bad for a guess I'd say...

Probably have similar goals. I'd like to have a very streetable low 11 second daily driver. Basically what I had with my CTS-V Coupe.

I'd also like to go max effort. I've kept my eye open for a full tube frame chassis. Engine swaps are easy for me. So you might see an LTG in a notch back Mustang, or 80's Malibu, or whatever I can find cheap! I've especially been looking for flood damaged 6th Gen Camaros, ATS Coupes, and C7 Corvettes.... I'd really love to put an LTG into a C7 Vette. That would be so much fun! A bunch of the Caddy guys want to see the max effort build done with an ATS because it would be cool to see the exhaust shooting out the hood of a Caddy.

[Corner carver]

Originally Posted by ChicagoTommy

Probably have similar goals. I'd like to have a very streetable low 11 second daily driver. Basically what I had with my CTS-V Coupe.

I'd also like to go max effort. I've kept my eye open for a full tube frame chassis. Engine swaps are easy for me. So you might see an LTG in a notch back Mustang, or 80's Malibu, or whatever I can find cheap! I've especially been looking for flood damaged 6th Gen Camaros, ATS Coupes, and C7 Corvettes.... I'd really love to put an LTG into a C7 Vette. That would be so much fun! A bunch of the Caddy guys want to see the max effort build done with an ATS because it would be cool to see the exhaust shooting out the hood of a Caddy.

I'd watch that video!
Who wouldn't want to see a demonic flame spewing caddy?!

I'd personally love to match my old man's best time in his 76' Camaro... 10.90s @125mph