[FactoryMatt]

I'm new to track *driving* (done plenty of sportbike trackdays in Advanced grp and raced Motocross). I've been running Supercar 3R (good deal on them used) and running in Sport 1 on track. I do run Competition mode in autocross and am trying to learn car control in AutoX and translate it to the track, though you're a gear higher and slides are obviously harder to catch.

I hate Sport 1, because low-end power is noticeably down and it feels videogamey on corner exit. These tires, when fully warmed, are insanely grippy which seems like a great way to cover up sub-par technique, but I also don't want to bin the car. I'm generally not at the limit of front grip with 285s as of now, and I'm about 10 seconds off the ideal time on a 2min course (sonoma).

the question is, would i be better off as a newer driver on an 200TW endurance tire, and if so, should i also just "start over" in PTM Race and completely discard any care about actual lap times for awhile? or should i continue with Sport 1 and maybe 2 for awhile, but on different tires. Or keep SC3R and run PTM Race?

I want to build good habits, but I also want to avoid learning the hard way as much as possible. Hope this all makes sense and thanks in advance!

2.9/2 camber, yyz springs, vorshlag plates, SPL rods

[Badmojo]

It's not about lap times as much as your ability to control oversteer and not cause snap oversteer jumping out of the throttle. Stability control wants to make the car go straight, even if you don't want to go straight. It can effectively negate your steering inputs. It can also overheat the rear brakes on track.



I would suggest running in Sport 2 which disables stability control, but maintains a familiar level of traction control. After you are comfortable, switch to PTM Race and concentrate on smooth throttle application on corner exit. Be ready to breathe off the throttle and steering inputs if you accidentally exceed the limits.


The best advice is "be smooth." It will be faster and safer in the long run.



I usually put my car in Track Sport 2 for street driving, because I trust myself more than stabiltrak.

[Christian1LE]

I would use regular Supercar 3 tires if you're 10 seconds off the pace, just from an economy standpoint, the non R tires last much longer. You can build good habits with any tire, if you don't care about spending money then you can keep using the R tires. I think sport 2 is fine to use, just be careful with those R tires on your first lap, especially the first 3 corners or so, they are slippery.

[Dabjbr]

Hey Matt!
Good to see you on here! Anyway, I agree with above. Don't waste your money on grippier tires yet. The SC3 are only a few seconds off pace when compared the R.

I think you're better off keeping with standard 200TW tires for now. 1) They're cheaper 2) they last 1.5-2x longer and 3) they're better matched for the stock pads.

[FactoryMatt]

Originally Posted by Christian1LE

I would use regular Supercar 3 tires if you're 10 seconds off the pace, just from an economy standpoint, the non R tires last much longer. You can build good habits with any tire, if you don't care about spending money then you can keep using the R tires. I think sport 2 is fine to use, just be careful with those R tires on your first lap, especially the first 3 corners or so, they are slippery.

almost learned that the hard way trailbraking too deep on an outlap with a cayman on my ass lol. i now wait almost two full laps until the display shows 'warm' before i hang it out.

Originally Posted by Dabjbr

Hey Matt!
Good to see you on here! Anyway, I agree with above. Don't waste your money on grippier tires yet. The SC3 are only a few seconds off pace when compared the R.

I think you're better off keeping with standard 200TW tires for now. 1) They're cheaper 2) they last 1.5-2x longer and 3) they're better matched for the stock pads.

Hey! good point. these 3Rs came with the used wheels i got with a day or two on them already, so figured i burn them up early and look at something longer wearing after. definitely nowhere close to exploiting them fully but they're not wearing too bad at least at my pace.

was gonna give the conti ECF a try in 295/315-19, and keep stock tire OD spread, but i could go 295/30 305/30 SC3. the grassroots tire chart claims ECFs wear and deal with heat a little better, but might be slower than SC3?

also running EBC SR11 pads now F&R and the initial torque curve is pretty insane compared to stock. still getting used to that too..

Thanks for the input!

[N Camarolina]

I think you'd be better off with SC3s and stock brake pads.

Focus on learning to drive the track well with good habits and smoothness, both of which are completely doable with the OEM equipment. More sticky tires will cover up mistakes while also providing less warning of when you are about to exceed their grip. And more aggressive brakes will make it difficult to learn trail braking (I like the greater pedal travel with OEM pads for that reason).

[BoilerUP]

ECFs last forever (I retired the first set on my ATS-V after something like 35 sessions and they still had plenty of life left on them) but their outright pace will be a bit less than a SC3.

The ECF doesn't need much warmup, is very consistent across a long session even on a hot track, and wears like iron...a great HPDE tire, especially considering cost per session.

For pad compound comparison's sake, ECFs are just fine but nearing their limits with G-Loc R12/R10 pads on my ATS-V while R16/R12 are a bit aggressive for them.

[FactoryMatt]

Originally Posted by BoilerUP

ECFs last forever (I retired the first set on my ATS-V after something like 35 sessions and they still had plenty of life left on them) but their outright pace will be a bit less than a SC3.

The ECF doesn't need much warmup, is very consistent across a long session even on a hot track, and wears like iron...a great HPDE tire, especially considering cost per session.

For pad compound comparison's sake, ECFs are just fine but nearing their limits with G-Loc R12/R10 pads on my ATS-V while R16/R12 are a bit aggressive for them.

Thanks! Saw your post on the Bimmerpost ecf thread. Good discussion there. Surprised 2.5 frt camber was the sweet spot (esp on 35 series) as I've heard these sidewalls are on the soft side. Was thinking of going from 2.9 frt to 3.5 but maybe I'll wait. Ordered a set off TDT for thunderhill, can't wait.

No experience with GLoc, but these sr11 are supposed to be medium torque endurance pads idk.

[BoilerUP]

One dude on Bimmerpost thinks the ECF has swiss cheese sidewalls...that hasn't been my experience.

I've found I get a little rollover on the first lap or two if I'm 29psi or less and overdriving, but once they're to 32 or so they're golden. I did find 34-35 to be the happy place, above 37 they get a little greasy but its predictable.

[khcoaching]

For context… my best lap “stock” (brake fluid, brake pads and track alignment, stock wheels and tires) was only 3 seconds slower than my best fully developed setup. (DSSV, swaybars, square 3Rs, etc) My best stock lap time was in Race PTM and my best developed was with all the nannies off.

My .02 is leave it as stock with good pads and fluid, leave it in Race PTM and work on your driving.

Ken

[wakespeak]

Stay with the GY SC3s and stock pads until until you are *certain* you have maxed that combo. You'll know what I am talking about when that happens. Essentially (as you are learning some now) you will be held back only if you get to be an expert within each of the stock modes. Work up all the way to Race mode. The car's modes were designed for that tire/brake combo all the way to expert - meaning you can drive it with full throttle and the system will keep you on the line *if* you have the car within expectations for that level.

Learn to brake late and maximize your on throttle/on brake points. If coasting or maintenance throttle (with *very* few exceptions) you have more to learn.

With the SS 1LE and SC3s you should be about even with well driven Porsche 718s (not GT4s) and 2/3 Series BMWs.

In the meantime target your hot pressures. You'll need to air up then down 1-3psi on days with cold mornings and hot afternoons.

Edit: yes use lap times to tune and measure progress. You'll have to correct for traffic. Try starting out after most have left the grid or come in to the pits if stuck in a pack.

[FactoryMatt]

Originally Posted by wakespeak

Stay with the GY SC3s and stock pads until until you are *certain* you have maxed that combo. You'll know what I am talking about when that happens. Essentially (as you are learning some now) you will be held back only if you get to be an expert within each of the stock modes. Work up all the way to Race mode. The car's modes were was designed for that tire/brake combo all the way to expert.

Learn to brake late and maximize your on throttle/on brake points. If coasting or maintenance throttle (with *very* few exceptions) you have more to learn.

With the SS 1LE and SC3s you should be about even with well driven Porsche 718s (not GT4s) and 2/3 Series BMWs.

In the meantime target your hot pressures. You'll need to air up then down 1-3psi on days with cold mornings and hot afternoons.

Edit: yes use lap times to tune and measure progress. You'll have to correct for traffic. Try starting out after most of left the grid or come in to the pits if stuck in a pack.

Thanks! I'm about the read the 30-page PTM thread, but is there a difference in catching a slide in Sport 2 vs Race? Either more yaw assist (I know they say it's full off) OR maybe less available torque in Sport 2 to do so?

Gonna run ECFs and these endurance pads just to help with longevity and consistency, but i hear you on stock. looking more for predictability and longevity than outright performance.

[wakespeak]

Originally Posted by FactoryMatt

Thanks! I'm about the read the 30-page PTM thread, but is there a difference in catching a slide in Sport 2 vs Race? Either more yaw assist (I know they say it's full off) OR maybe less available torque in Sport 2 to do so?

Gonna run ECFs and these endurance pads just to help with longevity and consistency, but i hear you on stock. looking more for predictability and longevity than outright performance.

I just mash the throttle basically all the time in race mode on SC3Rs and I hear it cut throttle when it needs to, eg on corner exit. You can't be stupid with it sure, like on carousels, but almost. On cold tires or mixed wet conditions the PTM can't save you. It is designed for warmed up tires on dry conditions -or- completely wet ("Wet" mode).

[Christian1LE]

Originally Posted by FactoryMatt

Thanks! I'm about the read the 30-page PTM thread, but is there a difference in catching a slide in Sport 2 vs Race? Either more yaw assist (I know they say it's full off) OR maybe less available torque in Sport 2 to do so?

Gonna run ECFs and these endurance pads just to help with longevity and consistency, but i hear you on stock. looking more for predictability and longevity than outright performance.

I personally think Sport 2 and Race can induce a situation in which it's harder to catch a slide than everything off. When you start going sideways it tends to cut the throttle and I feel like it can cause the car to snap in the other direction as the weight gets transferred to the front wheels.

Having said that I never had the car snap on me when I used to use race mode or sport 2. But the car feels more predictable to me while sliding around with everything off.