[Q'smuscle]

[QUOTE=MikeT;7761918]Hey, I hear ya. As a rule, I'm against these sorts of government mandates too, but I think that few would argue that the current Camaro is the most lookin-over-your-shoulder-friendly car out there. This car has a lot of virtues, but great rear visibility isn't among them. In other words, if there are any cars out there that will become a bit safer due to this mandate, I suspect the Camaro is probably among them.[/QUOT

He said all cars not just Camaros ! We all know the Camaro needs them but not the other cars! Like sedans and etc. So wait! Why do mustang ppl and others talk about the Camaro rear visibility but still all of them have backup camaras! Including the Mustangs! Why if they don't have the Camaro horrible visibility?

[Number 3]

Back up cameras are simply there to provide visibility of what is right behind your car. You couldn't possibly see a small child sitting behind your car.

Yes, there should be a simple amount of expected responsibility to own and operate a motor vehicle, but sadly too many children have beer backed over by their parents and this response addresses that.

Now if you've actually seen the cameras, the wiring to it weighs more. A backup camera is probably adding no more weight to your car than you burrito at lunch. Assuming you have NAV or at least CUE or MyLink.

What happens though is the sum of the parts. Add emissions, FE and technology to the total car and it gets tougher and tougher to keep weight down.

Simply put, to meet future emissions and FE standards cars must get lighter. Forget the performance crowd. The government has giant leaps in FE required coming up like a freight train.

Lighter cars cost more money because they require significant premiums for lighter weight materials. Even high strength steels carry a 10 to 15% penalty. Aluminum carries an even bigger penalty. Carbon Fiber? Even with the recent advances in manufacturing techniques, it remains wildly expensive.

Now GM took the C7, added the Aluminum frame and a bunch of CF and for the most part maintained price. This comes from a lot of hard work by a lot of people. And that also isn't free or cheap.

It will get tougher and tougher to buy a V8 in a passenger car. But they will all be getting lighter.

That has always been the tough battle for automotive engineers. Add mandated content, add technology and maintain cost and mass. Oh and lord help us when the Camaro needs a 150 pound hybrid battery................or worse a 400 pound Volt battery to meet FE standards.

[khell86]

Originally Posted by McRat

The 2014 base 4 door Cadillac ATS weighs 3315lb at the curb.

I'd say a 3600lb V8 Camaro is viable.

Wait, isn't that what my 2000 SS Camaro M6 weighed without the spare tire?

The ATS sport with the V6 weighs in at over 3600 lbs. I think once they release the weights for the ATS Couple V6, we'll have a decent ball park of where to expect the 6th gen camaro at.

[JR 1]

Originally Posted by Q'smuscle

What mandated backup camaras ! LOL..... ppl are getting lazy! What happen to. taking the time to look over your shoulder! This world is scary!

We can't expect people to look where they are going. That would be dangerous!

The trend is to keep adding more electronics, nannies, air bags, and every conceivable safety item so people can't hurt themselves no matter how badly they drive or even if they are too lazy to wear a seat belt.

But it doesn't matter how much they try to idiot proof these cars because someone will always build a better idiot.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by khell86

The ATS sport with the V6 weighs in at over 3600 lbs. I think once they release the weights for the ATS Couple V6, we'll have a decent ball park of where to expect the 6th gen camaro at.

That must be a loaded version with magnetic ride?? I know the ATS with V6 also comes in at just a hair over 3,450 lbs too, but not sure how equipped that one was.

I don't see the Camaro V6 getting magnetic ride...even as an option so IF the 6th gen Camaro was ATS sized, I'd place my bets at it being more around 3,450 - 3,500 instead of 3,600 ish.

There is good word that the Camaro is shinking, but how much...who knows. May not shrink quite to ATS size.

[ssrs2lt]

why no v6 magnetic ride? the weight vs hp?? I think that would be a big mistake..the majority of camaro sold are v6, so thinking reach to the masses? I think a 1le option as other members mentioned would be great.. I think Chevy needs to target the v6 crowd purely vs sales..

[C Murda]

i think what people are missing here is that this time around (since 2010) GM is playing the game SMART making a car that appeals to both enthusiasts and ordinary people! we have to expect GM to add more luxury features and quality/ comfort in order to keep the car going as well as it has been...BUT we also have to expect more power and less weight and HOPE that its wipes the streets with Mustang BLOOD!!! im really hoping that they make this 6th gen not only look mean but a real contender and take back our title of king! the ZL1 needs to beat the Shelby in every category, the Z28 needs to keep beating (yes i know it already does) the Boss and SS needs to beat the standard 5.0 thats all i ask for with this upcoming generation just MAKE IT HAPPEN!!! so sick of all the mustang guys being on their high horse

[khell86]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

That must be a loaded version with magnetic ride?? I know the ATS with V6 also comes in at just a hair over 3,450 lbs too, but not sure how equipped that one was.

I don't see the Camaro V6 getting magnetic ride...even as an option so IF the 6th gen Camaro was ATS sized, I'd place my bets at it being more around 3,450 - 3,500 instead of 3,600 ish.

There is good word that the Camaro is shinking, but how much...who knows. May not shrink quite to ATS size.

The base V6 Model ATS comes in at 3626 per Motortrend.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2013/...pecifications/

The ATS is a small car, about the size of a Cruze. I'd like to the mustang/camaro get smaller, but I dont see it happening. Not saying its not possible with more exotic materials, but I think we're a couple generations away from that.

[PoorMansCamaro]

Originally Posted by ssrs2lt

why no v6 magnetic ride? the weight vs hp?? I think that would be a big mistake..the majority of camaro sold are v6, so thinking reach to the masses? I think a 1le option as other members mentioned would be great.. I think Chevy needs to target the v6 crowd purely vs sales..

I think the largest reason is price. majority of people buy the v6 because it's cheaper.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by khell86

The base V6 Model ATS comes in at 3626 per Motortrend.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/2013/...pecifications/

The ATS is a small car, about the size of a Cruze. I'd like to the mustang/camaro get smaller, but I dont see it happening. Not saying its not possible with more exotic materials, but I think we're a couple generations away from that.

I disagee. Please take a look at Cadillac's own website:

http://www.cadillac.com/ats-luxury-s...imensions.html

The V6 equipped RWD verson is 3,461 lbs.

The AWD version is the one over 3,600 lbs, as I suspected.

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Originally Posted by khell86

The ATS is a small car, about the size of a Cruze. I'd like to the mustang/camaro get smaller, but I dont see it happening. Not saying its not possible with more exotic materials, but I think we're a couple generations away from that.

A problem for the horse wranglers is their Coyote-Roadrunner-Elmer Fudd engine lineup of DOHC V8 engines is physically HUGE (Billy Fuccillo sez it best - see below).



Here's a size comparison, in case you haven't seen this before: (and the LT1 is smaller than the 351, pictured!)

So how are you going to SHRINK a Stang when the bucket o' oats is that BIG? It was fine in Crown Vics 'n F-series trucks, but...

[wakespeak]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

I disagee. Please take a look at Cadillac's own website:

http://www.cadillac.com/ats-luxury-s...imensions.html

The V6 equipped RWD verson is 3,461 lbs.

The AWD version is the one over 3,600 lbs, as I suspected.

Very encouraging. These may be our numbers, with the V-8 coming in around same as AWD version. Camaro MSRP above the Mustang will be more easily justified.

[oklapike]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

I disagee. Please take a look at Cadillac's own website:

http://www.cadillac.com/ats-luxury-s...imensions.html

The V6 equipped RWD verson is 3,461 lbs.

The AWD version is the one over 3,600 lbs, as I suspected.

Originally Posted by wakespeak

Very encouraging. These may be our numbers, with the V-8 coming in around same as AWD version. Camaro MSRP above the Mustang will be more easily justified.

After I read your posts, I went looking for numbers for the ATS coupe.

Here's what I found: http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/cadi...2015.tab1.html

3411 for the 2.0L (RWD)
3530 for the 3.6L (RWD)

Assuming, of course, the 6th gen Camaro keeps the same wheelbase as the ATS, I think it's very possible we could see a manual 1SS that's lighter than the no-frills Mustang GT.

[McRat]

The ATS is going on a diet.

All GM will say is "Lightest in Class". That's a pretty big claim.

The BMW 428i is 3420lb. The ATS will be lighter.