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Old 09-12-2013, 05:16 PM   #309
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The body height from this particular view which is license plate-level (and wouldn't happen in real life) makes the body appear higher than it would really look because normally you would have 3 dimensional perspective. You can also see from the side and perspective views that the body height isn't that high. In fact in actuality it would be less than the Mustang in your sig.
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Nice renders. I see what you mean.
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Old 09-14-2013, 02:15 AM   #310
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Here's the Base model with the 5-spoke wheels in the perspective view. I decided to make the rocker panels the same color as the body to further distinguish the performance models from the base model.
Name:  2016 Camaro Concept Base.jpg
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I've also made progress on the 3/4 rear view. It's mostly there; just need to start finishing details and doing some tweaking.
Name:  2016 Camaro Concept rearP.jpg
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Old 09-14-2013, 07:46 PM   #311
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Doc, I hope this isn't too anime-ish for you.
If I had thousands of hours to mess around, I'd take your other views and mesh my vision with them as well, but you'll just have to imagine what the rest of this version would look like because honestly I spent waaaaay too much time on it already.
It's funny that you added the fender line and then painted the lowers body colored because I did that (albeit different) before you posted those updates.
The white lines below the headlights and side intakes are LED's, much like the C7 has in its headlights. Speaking of the headlights, these are mildly inspired by the TF4 Bumblebee (though the rest of that car is hideous). Don't blast me too badly for the execution, I've never 'made' headlights before.

If this car was available today and with all the other goodies it is going to have, I would run out and trade in my '12 SS immediately (mods and all) despite my wife's complete rejection of the idea.
We will see a lot of these cues in the real thing, I promise. Unfortunately (to me, anyway), some of them won't make it (I don't feel like elaborating right now).

Everyone let me know what you think, good or bad! Hopefully I didn't wreck Doc's rendering too badly in your eyes!
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Old 09-15-2013, 06:45 PM   #312
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Doc, I hope this isn't too anime-ish for you.
If I had thousands of hours to mess around, I'd take your other views and mesh my vision with them as well, but you'll just have to imagine what the rest of this version would look like because honestly I spent waaaaay too much time on it already.
It's funny that you added the fender line and then painted the lowers body colored because I did that (albeit different) before you posted those updates.
The white lines below the headlights and side intakes are LED's, much like the C7 has in its headlights. Speaking of the headlights, these are mildly inspired by the TF4 Bumblebee (though the rest of that car is hideous). Don't blast me too badly for the execution, I've never 'made' headlights before.

If this car was available today and with all the other goodies it is going to have, I would run out and trade in my '12 SS immediately (mods and all) despite my wife's complete rejection of the idea.
We will see a lot of these cues in the real thing, I promise. Unfortunately (to me, anyway), some of them won't make it (I don't feel like elaborating right now).

Everyone let me know what you think, good or bad! Hopefully I didn't wreck Doc's rendering too badly in your eyes!
Actually that's pretty darned nice! I like the way you shaded the sides of the car. I actually like this... a lot. The whole front upper grill is really well done. Yours is a more "modern" looking style; just a slight amount of trendy/anime but not overdone. You're right; this would sell. After spending some time looking at it, I wouldn't change a thing. From the roof detail right down to the lower edges of the front; I wouldn't change a thing.

This is really good; it would have been really great if I'd thought of it lol. But I must say it's really cool to see a design I started spark something like this.

You did spend a lot of time on this, didn't you... lol. Welcome to the addiction. I actually got hold of a 3D program and have started to put this thing into 3D so I can model it and show the way it would really look; complete with surfaces, lighting, etc.

My design is more of a purist/traditional style; yours is a more current trends/marketable style. If I can get the hang of this 3D program I'll model both styles.

REALLY good job man.
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Old 09-15-2013, 07:00 PM   #313
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Everyone let me know what you think, good or bad! Hopefully I didn't wreck Doc's rendering too badly in your eyes!
Now THATS something! That front end with the more current trend LED lamps and fogs is very close to the visions I had in my head while following this thread from the very beginning. I also love the shading affect you gave it...really brings out the profile.

This has really came out very well! That front end, with that super awesome rear end are very nice, and they would sell!! It even looks good from the side....I'm sold.

GM are you following this????
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:30 AM   #314
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Awesome, glad you guys like it!
I started writing a reply yesterday evening but I kept falling asleep. It wasn't because I stayed up very late the previous couple nights working on a certain rendering, I swear!

I definitely spent a lot of time on it. I changed just about every detail dozens of times until things worked together (edit: ...in accordance with the original vision in my head). Something small would look good as a standalone detail but wouldn't fit the rest of it, then when that worked out something else didn't look right... That back and forth over and over, etc. etc. etc., and sometimes I'd scrap an idea altogether and start over. Sometimes just throwing some 'paint' on there in goofy ways ends up working out well with some tweaks. Then there are tons and tons of small tweaks to the shapes, shades, and colors.
I know Doc knows exactly what I'm talking about.
Through all this, you'll notice that the overall silhouette/dimensions changed very little, just a couple slight curves here, slight corners there, etc. I think the dimensions are pretty much spot-on from this view.

All that being said, I'm not trying to take any credit for the car, Doc still gets all that for bringing the car into existence with a realistic shape, I just modified what he already had and I used several of his ideas, just in a different way.
Honestly, it would take me ten times longer just to get a decent front view shape if I had to start from scratch, let alone the other views, then all of the details would need to be created. I'm also just using Paint Shop Pro and it's a lot easier for me to play with existing things rather than creating things from nothing.

To me, this front view still says "I'm a Camaro and proud of it" without looking too much like anything from the past. Of course, that's always the critical goal of the designers when designing passionate cars like this. Just like Doc, I'd LOVE to be on the Camaro design team but I'd HATE to be on the Camaro design team, if you know what I mean. This car is not taken lightly by its target market (us).

All in all, I could blissfully spend many more hours playing with just this view, but at some point reality has to kick in because I have life to take care of. I'd really like to finish my vision on the rest of the car but I really don't have the time to do it any justice. Again, it would be the same overall shape, I'd just apply the same design philosophy as I did to the front. Doc, overall your rendering is really good! It's definitely fun to play with. I'd LOVE to see both styles finished in 3D!
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:51 AM   #315
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really like the D3z taillights
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:07 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by ALLTRBO View Post
Awesome, glad you guys like it!
I started writing a reply yesterday evening but I kept falling asleep. It wasn't because I stayed up very late the previous couple nights working on a certain rendering, I swear!

I definitely spent a lot of time on it. I changed just about every detail dozens of times until things worked together (edit: ...in accordance with the original vision in my head). Something small would look good as a standalone detail but wouldn't fit the rest of it, then when that worked out something else didn't look right... That back and forth over and over, etc. etc. etc., and sometimes I'd scrap an idea altogether and start over. Sometimes just throwing some 'paint' on there in goofy ways ends up working out well with some tweaks. Then there are tons and tons of small tweaks to the shapes, shades, and colors.
I know Doc knows exactly what I'm talking about.
Through all this, you'll notice that the overall silhouette/dimensions changed very little, just a couple slight curves here, slight corners there, etc. I think the dimensions are pretty much spot-on from this view.

All that being said, I'm not trying to take any credit for the car, Doc still gets all that for bringing the car into existence with a realistic shape, I just modified what he already had and I used several of his ideas, just in a different way.
Honestly, it would take me ten times longer just to get a decent front view shape if I had to start from scratch, let alone the other views, then all of the details would need to be created. I'm also just using Paint Shop Pro and it's a lot easier for me to play with existing things rather than creating things from nothing.

To me, this front view still says "I'm a Camaro and proud of it" without looking too much like anything from the past. Of course, that's always the critical goal of the designers when designing passionate cars like this. Just like Doc, I'd LOVE to be on the Camaro design team but I'd HATE to be on the Camaro design team, if you know what I mean. This car is not taken lightly by its target market (us).

All in all, I could blissfully spend many more hours playing with just this view, but at some point reality has to kick in because I have life to take care of. I'd really like to finish my vision on the rest of the car but I really don't have the time to do it any justice. Again, it would be the same overall shape, I'd just apply the same design philosophy as I did to the front. Doc, overall your rendering is really good! It's definitely fun to play with. I'd LOVE to see both styles finished in 3D!
Well being as how I'm a lot like you, I couldn't resist playing with the design hehe. I took what you did and made some adjustments (I lied about not changing anything lol). Here you can see yours on the left and my version-in-progress on the right.

The changes I made and why are as follows:

You made the upper grill even lower on the car than I had and it was already pretty low; not sure the hood line would clear all the hardware underneath so I kept it the same height as I already had.

I put an actual insert inside the upper grill which you can barely see as a gray line which defines the intake opening. I also came up with an idea to incorporate the amber parking/turn signal lights with the LEDs you'd designed.

I couldn't figure out how to get the LED headlights you designed to look good so I came up with a variation. I decided to reference them to the upper grill line instead of the lower line the way you had. I'm also not sure if what you designed would even be a legal headlight so what I've done is more likely to work legally.

I fixed the license plate size and dimension. I went out and measured mine and it's 6" tall x 12" wide so I fixed the ratio.

I looked at what you did for the LED fog/DRL lights and I realized there was a structural issue. The entire lower rocker panel/splitter is a bolt-on piece and with your design it would leave those small struts separating the cutout with the main cutout completely unsupported. I reduced the height of the cutouts so there's some supporting material underneath and someplace to bolt the splitter to.

I didn't cut into the very bottom bevel with the main lower cutout the way you did. I left it the same height all the way across for structural strength; at 100+ mph there might be issues with that section deforming if it's too thin.

I also haven't done anything yet with the hood or roof the way you have, although I did widen the hood bulge and reduced the height slightly.
Name:  2016 Camaro Concept ALTRBO front.jpg
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The differences are subtle but it still basically looks like your idea. The difference in ground height on mine is this is the Base model which is not lowered like the Z/28. The tires are also not quite as wide.

This front design is really nice looking; much more of a current style than what I'd done originally. It's also an evolution from the 2014 refresh front and I like this MUCH better... it has more style and pizazz.

Thanks for posting your idea...GREAT contribution!!!
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:01 AM   #317
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Here's a quick version of the Z/28 with the new style front.
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:09 AM   #318
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I like this ancient idea

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Old 09-17-2013, 02:29 AM   #319
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I like this ancient idea

Lol yeah ancient is correcto. That's loosely based on the old Chevy Astro 1 concept car which was introduced in 1967.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:22 AM   #320
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Here's a quick version of the Z/28 with the new style front.
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Old 09-17-2013, 01:21 PM   #321
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Awesome, glad you guys like it!
I started writing a reply yesterday evening but I kept falling asleep. It wasn't because I stayed up very late the previous couple nights working on a certain rendering, I swear!

I definitely spent a lot of time on it. I changed just about every detail dozens of times until things worked together (edit: ...in accordance with the original vision in my head). Something small would look good as a standalone detail but wouldn't fit the rest of it, then when that worked out something else didn't look right... That back and forth over and over, etc. etc. etc., and sometimes I'd scrap an idea altogether and start over. Sometimes just throwing some 'paint' on there in goofy ways ends up working out well with some tweaks. Then there are tons and tons of small tweaks to the shapes, shades, and colors.
I know Doc knows exactly what I'm talking about.
Through all this, you'll notice that the overall silhouette/dimensions changed very little, just a couple slight curves here, slight corners there, etc. I think the dimensions are pretty much spot-on from this view.

All that being said, I'm not trying to take any credit for the car, Doc still gets all that for bringing the car into existence with a realistic shape, I just modified what he already had and I used several of his ideas, just in a different way.
Honestly, it would take me ten times longer just to get a decent front view shape if I had to start from scratch, let alone the other views, then all of the details would need to be created. I'm also just using Paint Shop Pro and it's a lot easier for me to play with existing things rather than creating things from nothing.

To me, this front view still says "I'm a Camaro and proud of it" without looking too much like anything from the past. Of course, that's always the critical goal of the designers when designing passionate cars like this. Just like Doc, I'd LOVE to be on the Camaro design team but I'd HATE to be on the Camaro design team, if you know what I mean. This car is not taken lightly by its target market (us).

All in all, I could blissfully spend many more hours playing with just this view, but at some point reality has to kick in because I have life to take care of. I'd really like to finish my vision on the rest of the car but I really don't have the time to do it any justice. Again, it would be the same overall shape, I'd just apply the same design philosophy as I did to the front. Doc, overall your rendering is really good! It's definitely fun to play with. I'd LOVE to see both styles finished in 3D!
You describe the exact same process I go through. Sometime's it's ridiculous how the smallest tweak; the slightest change in shape or position can have that final "ahh that's it" effect. And sometimes after spending hours, I scrap the whole thing because it's just not working. I've got sketches of a single piece, or a top view that doesn't fit no matter how hard I try and put it into the design. Regardless of how much I like it, I just can't use it.

What you've done is exactly the response I was hoping this thread would inspire. While I believe it's important for a single designer to have the overall vision of what the car should be, it's definitely worthwhile to have more than one person working on ideas that can be incorporated into the final product.

If you know how to use Adobe Illustrator, it's much better than a paint program for working out shapes and ideas. Much quicker with more control over what you're drawing.

Your front view variation definitely looks like a Camaro, and even though it's using trendy LED lighting shapes it's not overdone. Overall it's a very tasteful and classy look.

This project just keeps getting better and better.
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:19 PM   #322
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Well being as how I'm a lot like you, I couldn't resist playing with the design hehe. I took what you did and made some adjustments (I lied about not changing anything lol). Here you can see yours on the left and my version-in-progress on the right.

The changes I made and why are as follows:

You made the upper grill even lower on the car than I had and it was already pretty low; not sure the hood line would clear all the hardware underneath so I kept it the same height as I already had.

I put an actual insert inside the upper grill which you can barely see as a gray line which defines the intake opening. I also came up with an idea to incorporate the amber parking/turn signal lights with the LEDs you'd designed.

I couldn't figure out how to get the LED headlights you designed to look good so I came up with a variation. I decided to reference them to the upper grill line instead of the lower line the way you had. I'm also not sure if what you designed would even be a legal headlight so what I've done is more likely to work legally.

I fixed the license plate size and dimension. I went out and measured mine and it's 6" tall x 12" wide so I fixed the ratio.

I looked at what you did for the LED fog/DRL lights and I realized there was a structural issue. The entire lower rocker panel/splitter is a bolt-on piece and with your design it would leave those small struts separating the cutout with the main cutout completely unsupported. I reduced the height of the cutouts so there's some supporting material underneath and someplace to bolt the splitter to.

I didn't cut into the very bottom bevel with the main lower cutout the way you did. I left it the same height all the way across for structural strength; at 100+ mph there might be issues with that section deforming if it's too thin.

I also haven't done anything yet with the hood or roof the way you have, although I did widen the hood bulge and reduced the height slightly.
Attachment 556738
The differences are subtle but it still basically looks like your idea. The difference in ground height on mine is this is the Base model which is not lowered like the Z/28. The tires are also not quite as wide.

This front design is really nice looking; much more of a current style than what I'd done originally. It's also an evolution from the 2014 refresh front and I like this MUCH better... it has more style and pizazz.

Thanks for posting your idea...GREAT contribution!!!
Thanks, and no problem...It's your car, tweak away!

Couple clarifications:

-The upper grille should still fit, just lower the hardware slightly. Seriously though, in this view you can't see the dimension that shows how much the nose extends forward. It would be 'slightly' longer than yours and come further forward in the middle (again... I emphasize 'slightly'), and of course the slope of the fenders would be a slight bit different so it would all come together properly. That would give it a little more clearance. It does seem doable to me, and there are many longitudinal front engine V8 cars with lower profiles than this. I do think it looks much sleeker and meaner with the lower position, but I'm all about being realistic and of course, it's a few pixels on a screen so I could be wrong.

-The intake insert is a good idea. It's one of many details I would have added had I not decided to call it 'good enough for now'.
I think your LED to turn signal transition is good, I wanted to play with that more.

-The actual headlights aren't visible in the pic, the white lines are either color or chrome accents, or LED accents (I hadn't decided). I think they look good and also look proper referenced to the lower edge, but that's JMHO. The actual headlights are a projector style HID with a completely flat black housing and sunken in a bit, similar to this but without the silver ring (or the JDM yO badassness).
http://www.carpart4u.com/product/198...our-Cars-.html
From what little I've researched, this style can be legal if done right and by a manufacturer, and will output more than enough light in the proper pattern for both highs and lows.
They would be visible in real life, but very subdued (when off). I didn't work that in because I'd have had to spend more time thinking and trial-and-error'ing. It's yet one more detail that I had to short-change.

-I did notice the license plate size error, I just spent all my time elsewhere. On that note, I removed the license plate early on and noticed that the space between the lower and upper grilles looked way too large, which the license plate hid, even with my taller lower grille. That is another small reason for lowering the upper grille and raising the lower grille edge, I think it looked kind-of SUV-ish without the license plate. I did plan on leaving it on in the final version, but wanted to see what it looked like without it.

-I visualized the lower edge of the fascia as having a slightly recessed vertical lip dropping down further than the part you can see, that the GFX/splitter piece bolts onto (from the rear). That lip continues across the bottom of the holes for the side vents and is where part of the LED (and not-visible plastic duct) are mounted to. I don't know if you've seen an IROC-Z bumper without the GFX, but very similar to that, except that one spans the whole distance of the lower grille. I played with many variations of the side vents including the one that you changed it to, but the one I ended up with looks the best by far to me.
This is one bit of design that I don't think we'll see, the simple GFX style has exited stage right in favor of more integrated and stylized fascias. That's unfortunate because I think it can still look great, as demonstrated here.

-With the lower cutout I was thinking of the ZL1 and how thin its edge is. I was also thinking that the simple lower grille that I hadn't designed yet would help support it. I might not have that to scale, though, so it may be too thin anyway.

-I think the roof humps are essential to the styling, but that's admittedly subjective. If you notice, rather than lower the middle section, I raised the outer sections, which would also give a 'slight' bit more headroom (which is the function that started that style way back anyway). Also, I believe that the roof ditch needs to be there because it's an efficient method of construction nowadays, pretty much across the board. I don't think we'll see one-piece roof and B-pillars anymore, at least not any time soon.

-I widened the visual part of the A-pillars slightly because I think that area would have reduced visibility anyway because of mandatory A-pillar airbags and stronger structure in these current times. Not as artificially wide (for style) as the 5thgen, granted, but moreso than your original.

-I left the height of the hood scoop alone, I actually just lowered the hood around the scoop to give the hood some definition and a visually more aggressive profile, without going too far into the engine bay (I think... I've seen "worse", look at the C7). It comes back up where the hood meets the fenders. With the usual lip around the hood I don't think this would cause any issues, and has, by far, the cleanest look to it vs. coming up anywhere else. This also gives it more muscular looking fenders. To my eye the flat hood (except scoop) looks rather boring. I know you said you weren't done with the above areas, I just thought it worth explaining anyway.

...ARGHHHHH. I had more typed but it got lost when the post didn't get through. Fortunately I had saved this much. It's too late now to remember what I wrote, I'll try later. G'night for now!
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