[keon718nyc]

Well looks beautiful and all that good stuff but i just want to know when can i order that 3rd brake light smoked lens and glad to finally see GM did that to match up the dark tail lamps.

[GoneBoy]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

If someone has no intention of taking their car on a road course, why would they even think of getting the option package that exists solely to make the car better on a road course? The 1LE package isn't for those buyers.

Its like complaining that the 2SS comes with a HUD and heated leather seats and spectrum lighting and dual zone climate control, while ignoring the fact that the 1SS exists without any of that stuff.



Wait, you're fine with the GT350R, that has a bunch of aerodynamic doodads on it .... but can't stand the look of the ZL1LE because it has a bunch of aerodynamic doodads on it? That doesn't make any sense.

Neither does complaining that it going to have too limited of an appeal (low volume on low volume) while saying that its trying to please too many people. Either it has broad appeal, or narrow. Not both.

It makes absolutely perfect sense, so I'm not sure where I lost you. I never said I have a problem with the concept of aero add-ons. You can agree or disagree, but the aero kit on the 350r blends in much more seamlessly with the natural body lines of the vehicle. Dare I say it's actually a very attractive car. On the other hand over here, it looks like GM consulted with Shredder for direction on their package.

And how is my pointing out that they're trying to appeal to more people on a low volume car contradictory? Would you say that GM would label the last gen z28 a sales success? Most would say no, but who knows what GM's sales goals were when it was unveiled. If the goal with this 1le IS to bring more buyers to the table so that people aren't questioning why they're spending $70k+ on a camaro that can only be driven on the track, then maybe there's a case for this package, which also means that they intend for a portion of those buyers to street drive this car. With the acr, there's no question about what its intentions are...killing road courses, so we can laugh at the absurd spoiler all we want because chances are, we'll hardly ever see many tooling around town. My point is this...if you're going to build a track weapon, build a track weapon. If GM had deleted the majority on comfort items on this car down to the sound insulation, I'd have nothing to say about it because I'd know what purpose it was built for. That's not exactly the case with what I'm seeing here.

[MoreSpeed]

Originally Posted by speedyman

ACR looks absolutely ridiculous but goes like hell on the "track" if you care about that stuff. How many guys who buy Camaros, Corvettes, Mustangs, etc. are regulars at the road course venues?

About 70% of the Porsche GT3 owners race their cars. With the performance envelope of these wilder variants, these old muscle cars will attract a different crowd. I can speak first hand about this. So how many might race a Camaro, not many. How many are likely to race a ZL1 1LE? I bet you will see new buyers and the answer will be... a lot.

With a 3 second improvement, it will likely challenge the GT3 RS, which with ADM is a quarter million dollar car.

By the way, I don't like the look of the dive planes or splitter either. However, for a certain group of people, if gluing a unicorn horn to their windshield would reduce lap times, they would do it.

[BradfordCamaro]

There was a comment made about revised gearing for the Z/1LE... Did I miss that info somewhere? Was that stated by GM?


Z/1LE - Gonna Trademark that

[sonnydurden]

Originally Posted by SixgenSix

The 3rd brake light got the dark lamp treatment too.

I'm hoping that is available to buy!! Still don't like the wing..

[Sven59]

Originally Posted by BradfordCamaro

There was a comment made about revised gearing for the Z/1LE... Did I miss that info somewhere? Was that stated by GM?


Z/1LE - Gonna Trademark that

In Hennessy' video the manual ZL1 dropped off at 176 when they shifted into 6th. Maybe revised gearing for more speed. I would think this is a shorter track intended car. If not where is the Nurburgring time for this or are they holding it back?

[speedyman]

Originally Posted by MoreSpeed

About 70% of the Porsche GT3 owners race their cars. With the performance envelope of these wilder variants, these old muscle cars will attract a different crowd. I can speak first hand about this. So how many might race a Camaro, not many. How many are likely to race a ZL1 1LE? I bet you will see new buyers and the answer will be... a lot.

With a 3 second improvement, it will likely challenge the GT3 RS, which with ADM is a quarter million dollar car.

Yeah we know about the GT3s. Track car from the word go and a fantastic looking vehicle on the street. A GT3 is NOT comparable to a Mustang or Camaro in the minds of those in their target audience and we all know it. I work with and know a bunch of P car guys and none of them would ever consider a Pony Car even if it were faster around the tracks than the Porsche GT cars. It would be like a hard core Harley V-twin man switching to a Suzuki cruiser, ani't never gonna happen.

[RLHMARINES]

Originally Posted by Sven59

In Hennessy' video the manual ZL1 dropped off at 176 when they shifted into 6th. Maybe revised gearing for more speed. I would think this is a shorter track intended car. If not where is the Nurburgring time for this or are they holding it back?

They never release 'Ring times this early prior to production.

[ron scubadiver]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

If someone has no intention of taking their car on a road course, why would they even think of getting the option package that exists solely to make the car better on a road course? The 1LE package isn't for those buyers.

Most high performance cars have difficult to use capabilities. Even taking a garden variety SS to its limit of adhesion involves speeds and risks way too dangerous for public roads. Some forget an SS is faster than exotic cars of 20 years ago and the ZL1 is completely over the top.

People buy these cars because they have amazing capabilities; it is the aura and not the use. If the car is a lousy DD it will sell in small numbers and I am certain that will be the case with this latest track focused Camaro.

Tons of super fast exotics get wrecked because the surgeons and lawyers who buy those cars have money, but no high speed driving skills, and no inclination to take the time to learn. They believe because they are successful at one thing they are great at everything.

[RLHMARINES]

Originally Posted by speedyman

Yeah we know about the GT3s. Track car from the word go and a fantastic looking vehicle on the street. A GT3 is NOT comparable to a Mustang or Camaro in the minds of those in their target audience and we all know it. I work with and know a bunch of P car guys and none of them would ever consider a Pony Car even if it were faster around the tracks than the Porsche GT cars. It would be like a hard core Harley V-twin man switching to a Suzuki cruiser, ani't never gonna happen.

You have exotic brand snobs for sure but you also have true track enthusiast who track what ever is the more effective track car within their world and they jump to and from different cars that are fast but reliably so that hopefully won't break the bank.

Some of the exotic brand guys may not buy a Corvette or Camaro but they do and will have respect for what it can do on a track.

[MoreSpeed]

Originally Posted by speedyman

Yeah we know about the GT3s. Track car from the word go and a fantastic looking vehicle on the street. A GT3 is NOT comparable to a Mustang or Camaro in the minds of those in their target audience and we all know it. I work with and know a bunch of P car guys and none of them would ever consider a Pony Car even if it were faster around the tracks than the Porsche GT cars. It would be like a hard core Harley V-twin man switching to a Suzuki cruiser, ani't never gonna happen.

I was switching from my GT3. Porsche is upsetting a bunch of us with the crazy over list situations with the GT4 and RS and 911R. It is now hard to get one of the track variants since so many investors are buying these to resell for $50k to $100k profit 2000 miles later or buying them to seal them in a room. California dealers were asking $150k over list on the RS. I have been loyal to Porsche for over a decade but I am shopping now. I know others who feel the same.

Ps. I get the investors. I have had my GT3 for about 7 years and it is still worth almost exactly what I paid for it new.

But if you want to race, these old track versions with their harsh rides, that were cheaper than the slower Turbo on the track, are a thing of the past. Back then, only track people wanted them and a racer could buy one. Now, no one has grease under their fingernails when they buy their museum piece. In LA, you could actually buy an RS, unlike around here. They wanted $350k for a $200k MSRP car. Now think of your Porsche friends. How many of them would buy in? If they did, would they feel good stuffing the front end of their expensive car with tire marbles? If not that, what do you track? GT350R, Corvette if it didn't' have over heating issues, ZL1?

[doc7000]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Ok, you think it's ugly. Thank you for re-sharing.

Nobody bought Vipers period ...Their discontinuation had nothing to do with the track model.

Since 2009 they haven't sold over 1000 per year...of all trim levels combined. And their target was 1500...

Many people sum it up to the price of the car, I guess what it partly came down to was the Viper customer in general. The starting MSRP for the 2013 Viper was $99,390 which many just considered it to be too much, though you got a car that IMHO would fit in Europe back in the 1990s (to me the golden age of super cars).

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by GoneBoy

Actually, i think plenty of us 'get it'. And the benefits of all these aero bits are well understood. What you may not realize is that for some, our zl1s may not be our daily drivers, but they're also not our track day only vehicle. For me, that means i don't want to look like a clown 95% of the time that I'm actually in the car.

GM may have been confused with what the objective of this vehicle is. Maybe because the last z28 was too narrow in scope with its creature comforts, they decided to include some of those in this model. My things is that this is gonna be a really low volume option on an already low volume vehicle. If you're gonna make a track car, make a no-apologies track car....ditch the backseat altogether, get rid of the power seats, or put a basic stereo in there. Ford got it right. The 350r is a track car and for all of its lack of amenities, I'd still drive that thing around town without embarrassment. GM was just trying to please to many people on this one. Clearly, some guys like the look of the car, so hey.

I wouldn't be one bit embarrassed to own this ZL1 1LE car. Not in the least and I'm fairly sure Chevy has a goal in mind. Only thing is that it's only available with the stick. But they did that for a reason which I suspect they only plan to sell a few to make the car legit on the track.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by speedyman

Spot on. Zl1s, Z06s, etc. are capable of doing things that 99% of their buyers are not. Chances are that your ZL1 is a lot better than you are.

Um, I'd put that at 100% chances. haha. I know for a fact, myself, I'm a pretty damn good driver. But, put me up against Tony Stewart and I'm sure I'd get laughed at so. I can't even push my Z06 to prob half it's limit without getting scared so. Us common folk will honestly never know the full potential. We just enjoy the cars while I have breath still left in me.