[SmAC]

I test drove an RS Blazer last month and I have to tell you.... The engine and power delivery is beyond boring and it all costs more than a loaded 2SS... no thanks

[sonnydurden]

Originally Posted by cbr1100xx

I paid $33,090 for my '19 1SS in 2019. (Before tax and lic). I had the Mustang rebate plus dealer discount.

Great deal! But of course you know all of these dealer discounts are due to poor sales. In 2010- 2013 I remember the biggest rebate or discount being $500!! But the Camaro was destroying the Mustang and Challenger in sales then. Trust me you weren't getting an 1SS for under $33k in 2012!

[karmatourer]

Originally Posted by zts1986

The LT1 should be a massive hit but GM is far more interested in advertising their new Blazer. I put all the fault for the low sales numbers on advertising.

If money was a consideration,the LT1 would be my 1st choice.

[samurai]

It's so easy to just point out the entry price of cars and argue that being cheaper is always the best. But you totally forgot to see why the Camaro was more expensive than the 15 Mustang GT. And this is coming from someone who owned a 15 GT and still think the car is great.

As a note, my opinion is based on the european GT model, which is pretty much the maxed out equipment of a GT incl. Perofrmance Package 1.

Some examples:
- Ride quality. The ride quality in the 15 GT (even with PP1) is only useful if you want to cruise. As soon as you want to drive it like a sportscar it's bad. Wheel hopping, a lot of bodyroll. And if you want to drive above 180 kph the whole car starts to shake. The MR in the Camaro in comparison is extremely good, the only reason to upgrade to an aftermarket one is when you are track focussed. You can even drive the vmax of 290 kph (Germany ) in the Camaro without feeling unsafe.

- Build quality. In the Camaro its to this day miles ahead of the GT. A lot of 15+16 models had totally crooked rearwindows, a lot of parts are not aligned very well and even the refresh comes with some crazy gapsunder the headlights (I could fit my finger in the gap of one I saw) on some cars. Fords quality control is just horrible.

- Material quallity. Just touch the steering wheel on a 15 GT. It feels like really bad plastic, because the leather is so thin and painted with some cheap paint. The Camaro in comparison has a high quality leather steering wheel like you get from BMW etc. Same goes for the seats, Fords seats tend to have waves and start to crack within the first 10k miles.
- Increased visiual quality: Just look how many parts Chevy is painting the Camaro where Mustang just goes with unpainted plastic: front grilles, diffusor, most parts of the engine bay.

- Wheels. The Pirelli Pzero on the 15 Mustang GTs were the worst wheels I have even driven. As soon as the road is just a little wet, you have to drive like a granny to not fly out of a corner, even at low speed.

- Exhaust. The 15 GT sounds just bad. It's just way too quiet, that is in no way the V8 experience people want. The Camaro sounds way better especially with the NPP.

- Infotainment. SYNC2 was horrible in the Mustang. The navigation was not able to show you informations/arrows in the instrument cluster, only on the center console screen. In the Camaro you can even display that stuff in the HUD. Even with SYNC3 a lot of stuff is just badly designed in the Mustang. Rev Match is bound to being in sportmode, Camaro uses the paddles, with the current mustang you can't even set up exhaust note, ride mode, etc like you can in the Camaro. As soon as the leave the car, everything is set back to normal. Camaro can be leaved in track exhaust and ride mode without problems.


- I would even say the LT1 engine is the better engine in every single way compared to the Coyote in the 15 GT. The Coyote is missing torque and really needs to get above 4k RPM to get going. The LT1 has way more low-rpm power and even get's better milage when cruising.



To be fair, Ford stepped up their game with the refresh. They added Magnetic Ride, active valve exhaust, competition for the 1LE with the Performance Package 2, threw away the Pzero wheels, increased steering wheel and leather quality, updated the coyote for more low-rpm power and most of the other stuff. But for this reason they had to increase their base prices by a huge amount so now it's pretty much on par with 6th Gen Camaro.

Listen, I really liked my 15GT, but if you have driven both cars with more than a day, you can feel at every single thing of this car why the 6th Camaro launched way more expensive than the Mustang GT at this time. Chevy knew what they did, they wanted to build a high quality sportscar and not just the cheap V8 cruiser. That's why the price went up. They of course calculated that this will decrease sales, but my guess is that the higher price is also giving them more profit per car than a lower priced model.

[95 imp]

My .02....

I looked at the '19s. Rented a 2SS convert. and enjoyed the performance. Loved the front end. Actually could live with the A10. What I didn't like was the "luxobarge" feel to it. Way too many buttons and gadgets. I HATE that some guy in Detroit is telling me when to change lanes, when I'm following too close, or overrides how I want to shift the tranny. (GM isn't so bad. The Dodge Challenger Hellcat is ridiculous).

When I talked to the salesman, I asked about a 1SS and 1SE to see what could be taken out. Not because of price, but because of weight. If I'm buying a fast car, I want a fast car. I don't need a HUD system. I have a dash tach. (Which, another dislike about the 6 gen is it is TOO refined. I want to hear/feel the motor and I couldn't do that in the one I rented) I do not need a butt heater/cooler. The turn off was "no can do". Cant strip them down period.

I want a body, a radio, a/c, an m6, and a stupid hp motor. Which is what the 1LT-LT1 sounds like it's gonna be. A couple of options and out the door @ 40K. Then another 15-18k in mods and you're eating ZL1's and Hellcats for the price of a loaded 2SS. THAT is where the action is at.

[Jim50thSS]

All cars are over priced. It's why they depreciate so fast as soon as you drive them off the lot. I know I overpaid but I don't care, I love my car and love that I am the first and only owner. Also, I would still pay more to own a Camaro over a mustang.

[Smokin19]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

My .02....

I looked at the '19s. Rented a 2SS convert. and enjoyed the performance. Loved the front end. Actually could live with the A10. What I didn't like was the "luxobarge" feel to it. Way too many buttons and gadgets. I HATE that some guy in Detroit is telling me when to change lanes, when I'm following too close, or overrides how I want to shift the tranny. (GM isn't so bad. The Dodge Challenger Hellcat is ridiculous).

When I talked to the salesman, I asked about a 1SS and 1SE to see what could be taken out. Not because of price, but because of weight. If I'm buying a fast car, I want a fast car. I don't need a HUD system. I have a dash tach. (Which, another dislike about the 6 gen is it is TOO refined. I want to hear/feel the motor and I couldn't do that in the one I rented) I do not need a butt heater/cooler. The turn off was "no can do". Cant strip them down period.

I want a body, a radio, a/c, an m6, and a stupid hp motor. Which is what the 1LT-LT1 sounds like it's gonna be. A couple of options and out the door @ 40K. Then another 15-18k in mods and you're eating ZL1's and Hellcats for the price of a loaded 2SS. THAT is where the action is at.

Please expound on these mods to make it eat a ZL1. Then after your mods it's still only worth what a basic 2SS sells for. Of course the drive train will grenade after all those mods, because it was not built to handle that kind of power. Let us know how it works out for you in a few years.

[6spdhyperblue]

Not saying it would be my first choice but a Stage 1 Heads cam would be enough to “eat a ZL1” Maybe even cam only. I hate comparing stock vs modded but it is what it is.

Lt1 trim and katskins ftw

[Puddin]

Smokin19 all he would need to do is buy a blower and the Lt4 fuel system which he could get both for a little under 10k and leave any stock Zl1 in the dust for less than the cost of a new Zl1. As far as the drivetrain not holding up anything can happen even on a stock car but pick the right tuner and it will mitigate some of the potential hazards.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Smokin19

Please expound on these mods to make it eat a ZL1. Then after your mods it's still only worth what a basic 2SS sells for. Of course the drive train will grenade after all those mods, because it was not built to handle that kind of power. Let us know how it works out for you in a few years.

Fun fact. You can buy a Mustang and a Supercharger and as long as it's installed by an approved technician, you maintain your warranty.

From a retired Ford Powertrain Engineer.

https://www.motor1.com/news/307390/7...-supercharger/

[GearheadSS]

Everything has gotten more expensive over the last 7 years, so why should Camaros be any different?

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Puddin

Smokin19 all he would need to do is buy a blower and the Lt4 fuel system which he could get both for a little under 10k and leave any stock Zl1 in the dust for less than the cost of a new Zl1. As far as the drivetrain not holding up anything can happen even on a stock car but pick the right tuner and it will mitigate some of the potential hazards.

How does this set up leave a ZL1 in the dust exactly?

You would be giving up a ton of cooling capacity and chassis tuning so on the track this set up would at best be behind before it overheated.

On the "other" track, the 1/4 mile long one, This might be equal unless you plan to tune it for more than the LT4s 650 HP. In which case not quite left in the dust, but maybe a win here.

Not disagreeing you can get set up you describe and a ton more HP and save maybe $10,000. But overall, the ZL1 would still be the better package unless you went in and bought and installed all the coolers and chassis bits. And then you will be much closer to the cost of a ZL1 but you will have lost the warranty on everything you just touched.

So you would be creating a really fun car at the expense of the powertrain warranty, but I don't think you have a car that leaves a ZL1 in the dust.

[dpevans]

Originally Posted by zts1986

The LT1 should be a massive hit but GM is far more interested in advertising their new Blazer. I put all the fault for the low sales numbers on advertising.

that's because the SUV and Truck market make up the profit for GM so they can build cars like the Corvette and Camaro.

[L8Apex]

I bought a new Chevy Blazer in 95 and it was the worst vehicle I've ever owned, I had to laugh when I saw they brought it back, I won't touch it with a 50' pole.