[docwra]

Originally Posted by genxer

Public charging is just going to be subject to bottlenecks.
Home charging makes most sense from a garage.

Its unusual to have to wait for a charger in UK, its got a lot better recently, apparently there are now 53K charging points which is up 45% on 2022.

Likewise all new build houses and apartments since 2022 have to include an EV point - my home charger is on the side of a fence and I know some local councils are installing "residents charging" on bigger apartments and blocks of flats.

The drawbacks are rapidly getting smaller, or disappearing entirely.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by docwra

Its unusual to have to wait for a charger in UK, its got a lot better recently, apparently there are now 53K charging points which is up 45% on 2022.

Likewise all new build houses and apartments since 2022 have to include an EV point - my home charger is on the side of a fence and I know some local councils are installing "residents charging" on bigger apartments and blocks of flats.

The drawbacks are rapidly getting smaller, or disappearing entirely.

In fairness, the EU and UK just don't have the population density that the US does. That's what really hurts the US when it comes to these kinds of things, and ultimately why the public transportation also sucks too.

[genxer]

Originally Posted by docwra

Its unusual to have to wait for a charger in UK, its got a lot better recently, apparently there are now 53K charging points which is up 45% on 2022.

Likewise all new build houses and apartments since 2022 have to include an EV point - my home charger is on the side of a fence and I know some local councils are installing "residents charging" on bigger apartments and blocks of flats.

The drawbacks are rapidly getting smaller, or disappearing entirely.

My thinking now is EV will have to compete on a scale with combustion parity. cost, capability, convenience w/ certainty.

When I shopped a Volt, the idea was to 'drill-baby-drill' a discreet hole in the wall for an 110v extention cord. I still rent, and part of my rent staying cheap is my landlord not being hassled by needy tenants or mandates from above.

Someone earlier made the point about poor charger upkeep being from being unprofitable - if they sit unused with people's regular charging at home - and then have to handle a holiday or event rush. I know I don't have any sympathy for people, that have either rode the asset bubble or ran up debt, to want these things subsidized.

[ariZona28]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

In fairness, the EU and UK just don't have the population density that the US does. That's what really hurts the US when it comes to these kinds of things, and ultimately why the public transportation also sucks too.

Nor do they have the travel distances. The US is not just a country but also loosely fits the definition of a continent. Goods, services and people travel large distances on a daily basis. You can travel across France in less than half a day. It takes at least 2 days to cross the US and thats with minimal stops.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by ariZona28

Nor do they have the travel distances. The US is not just a country but also loosely fits the definition of a continent. Goods, services and people travel large distances on a daily basis. You can travel across France in less than half a day. It takes at least 2 days to cross the US and thats with minimal stops.

Yeah, that's basically my point. The entire Sweden/Norway/Finland countries have less population than just Florida (last time I checked).

When I lived in Germany, you would see everything in the city, drive 15 min away from one, and it was like you went back 30 years in time for the most part between the large cities...

Meanwhile, a city that could be considered a large city in the EU is considered a small town here in the US...

[docwra]

The distances and rubbish public transport in the US I cant argue with, but the biggest UK cities are roughly the same population as the biggest US cities, the bits that didnt get destroyed in WW2 have much older buildings and road networks to work with too.
Central Europe is pretty empty apart from cows and angry farmers, no denying that.

Originally Posted by genxer

My thinking now is EV will have to compete on a scale with combustion parity. cost, capability, convenience w/ certainty.

Totally agree, I think we are a getting lot closer here as EVs are better suited to European requirements, and are generally more convenient - the infrastructure is visibly improving as EV take up increases which cant be a bad thing IMO.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by docwra

The distances and rubbish public transport in the US I cant argue with, but the biggest UK cities are roughly the same population as the biggest US cities, the bits that didnt get destroyed in WW2 have much older buildings and road networks to work with too.
Central Europe is pretty empty apart from cows and angry farmers, no denying that.

Yeah, their main cities are generally the same as the US, but that's still kinda the issue. Their public transportation system is part of why they can get away with their EV structure being what it is.

You simply don't have that ability in the US right now.... heck even cities like Chicago and New York, which are massive subway/cab cities, can't do it...

[Martinjlm]

Here’s a chart I put together to respond to a question for one of our clients. This is just work process product and not a chart that will appear (at least not exactly) in the work product, but it provides some interesting facts and findings. So, I’ll post it here and see where the comments go. My initial thoughts:

• Notice the brands that Tesla outsells.
• Notice that Tesla has moved up three position points in a year.
• Notice that every brand that sells EVs sold more EVs in 2023 than they did in 2022. Measure that against “EVs aren’t selling”.
• Also notice that % of total volumes that each brand sells as EVs is holding steady or going up for every brand. Yes, Kia and Audi show a slight dip but that is pretty much rounding. It’s basically even, especially since both are adding several nameplates in 2024.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Just eyeballing, it looks like around 1.6 million EV's sold in '23?

While the trend is good, the absolute numbers are still too small to really draw any solid conclusion.

Do you have an EV vs time or EV% vs time graph so you can see what the slope is doing?

[genxer]

For a lay of the land view, I'd rather see penetration into comparable segments than brands. And look for a slip in leaders. European luxury isn't a surprise.

Teslas 3 & Y now is closer starting to mainstream premium-ish. Has there been weakness with Highlander, Grand Cherokee, Camry, Accord? I'd look at Hyundai and Volkswagen to see how much EVs might cannibalize other models.

Sentiment surrounding brands differ. Grading on curves makes chart comparison tough.

[MyNameIs]

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by MyNameIs

That video is actually laughable to anyone who actually follows what is going on in the automotive industry (NOT just EV). It was apparently produced in early 2023. One of the things stated in the video is that sales are slower “so far in 2023” than they were in 2022. A 30 second Google search will confirm that 2023 EV sales were 46% HIGHER than 2022 and shattered the 1 million mark for the first time. From that point on credibility is zero.

In a study my company did in Q1 2023 our findings were that over 60% of EV buyers surveyed said their next vehicle purchase would be an EV. 76% for Tesla owners.

[MyNameIs]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

That video is actually laughable to anyone who actually follows what is going on in the automotive industry (NOT just EV). It was apparently produced in early 2023. One of the things stated in the video is that sales are slower “so far in 2023” than they were in 2022. A 30 second Google search will confirm that 2023 EV sales were 46% HIGHER than 2022 and shattered the 1 million mark for the first time. From that point on credibility is zero.

In a study my company did in Q1 2023 our findings were that over 60% of EV buyers surveyed said their next vehicle purchase would be an EV. 76% for Tesla owners.

Yeh...thats because your company is pushing the EV Market/force down our throats.

[MyNameIs]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

That video is actually laughable to anyone who actually follows what is going on in the automotive industry (NOT just EV). It was apparently produced in early 2023. One of the things stated in the video is that sales are slower “so far in 2023” than they were in 2022. A 30 second Google search will confirm that 2023 EV sales were 46% HIGHER than 2022 and shattered the 1 million mark for the first time. From that point on credibility is zero.

In a study my company did in Q1 2023 our findings were that over 60% of EV buyers surveyed said their next vehicle purchase would be an EV. 76% for Tesla owners.

Anyone pushing EVs also pushing African Child slave labor to meet their goals. Damn shame.