[Blue Menace]

Originally Posted by hognutz

chevy's was not aming at the GT500 with ZL1 unlike many ford fans think. you don't go to germany and run the ring to compete with a 1/4 mile car. they were trying to make an M3 like balanced sports car. Same way the CTS-v went after the M5. ford does not publish the times right or wrong so that marketing scheme is not directed at ford as much.

Now the internet has naturally make it a gt500 vs ZL1 thing becaue mustang vs camaro is more natural

I normally agree with your posts, but not on this account. Point me to where Al O. mentions BMW specifically or generally to any European car. All I heard him mention was Ford/GT500. Where did I miss those references I'm mentioning?

[DJ Red Barron]

Originally Posted by 69bossnine

If waiting to see some ham-fisted dork, who's never rolled into staging beams before, who just bought his 2013 GT500 as part of a middle-age-crisis, to bring his car out to a test and tune and absolutely stink up the track with some mid/high-12-second painful-to-watch passes....

If waiting to see that happen, and it WILL happen (it happens when any hot new car comes out, the inexperienced dorks migrate to the track like penguins travelling inland to breed), makes you feel better about this whole GT500 vs. ZL1 matter, then that's fine.

Just know that equal-doses of hapless ZL1 owners will be putting on similar displays of ineptitude across the dragstrips of America.

In short, waiting for private-hands drag strip runs won't change anything. You'll see the entire gambit, from guys easily matching or even exceeding the efforts of the magazines, to guys who ought not be allowed a drivers license.

You should look into a screen name change. "Voice Of Reason" would be my suggestion.


I can just see it now... "But... but... but some schmuck who has never been near a drag strip in his life ran a 2013 GT500 and only managed a 13.6 out of it.... This MUST be how they are in the 'real world'!"

If I drove John Force's top fueler tomorrow, I assure you my "real world" time would be REALLY f--king slow compared to what the car is capable of.

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I gotcha. So you're thinking that the new GT500 will jump around more due to the SRA when it hits uneven surfaces. I'm sure your right ,but I don't know if it will be that much different unless pushed really hard. For me I'm a straight liner so I'm not worried about that end of it.

yup.

You picked the right car.

The ZL1 will be my 7th Camaro so very deep down, I am more a Camaro guy than anything but I am not a narrow minded kool-aid drinking fanboy.

[BigHemiSrt]

Originally Posted by DJ Red Barron

You should look into a screen name change. "Voice Of Reason" would be my suggestion.


I can just see it now... "But... but... but some schmuck who has never been near a drag strip in his life ran a 2013 GT500 and only managed a 13.6 out of it.... This MUST be how they are in the 'real world'!"

If I drove John Force's top fueler tomorrow, I assure you my "real world" time would be REALLY f--king slow compared to what the car is capable of.

I vote for Voice of Reason also!!!

[VenomInside]

Originally Posted by Blue Menace

I normally agree with your posts, but not on this account. Point me to where Al O. mentions BMW specifically or generally to any European car. All I heard him mention was Ford/GT500. Where did I miss those references I'm mentioning?

This.

[Barracuda]

Originally Posted by nanokpsi

At 126mph, the difference is roughly 6 car lenghts for half a second, and that is assuming the Z has the same speed, which it certainly does not. That yields a pretty large gap after a quarter mile, where the more powerful car is handicapped more from the launch. Not to metnion the gap is very much increasing as the speeds get higher.

...but I digress, mayber that isn't a big difference to you....

Good way to look at it. When you put two car side by side on the strip (or the street), what people (at least the drivers) notice most when the race is done is not the difference in their ETs or Trap Speeds, but how far apart the cars are when the first one crosses the finish line.

Assuming you're using the MT numbers (11.6@125.7 vs 12.1@117.4) as the best available direct comparison, it would be less than 6 car lengths. To be more accurate, when the GT500 crosses at 126 MPH, the ZL1 is 0.5 seconds from finishing. At the time, it is going less than 117 MPH (assuming it's still accelerating up to it's 117.4 trap speed). So at that point, it's closer to 5 car lengths.

Still A LOT in my opinion.

[69bossnine]

Originally Posted by DJ Red Barron

You should look into a screen name change. "Voice Of Reason" would be my suggestion.


I can just see it now... "But... but... but some schmuck who has never been near a drag strip in his life ran a 2013 GT500 and only managed a 13.6 out of it.... This MUST be how they are in the 'real world'!"

My point exactly... And that's the train I hear chuggin' 'round the bend... "Let's forget the standardized magazine tests, let's forget the head-to-head comparisons, and let's also toss out any FAST runs we see because that dude must've been on the bottle.... Let's forget all that, and find solace in watching Captain Inept forget to set his launch control, take a bite of a sandwich between gear changes, and slam on the brakes as he approaches the initial trap-beam... We'll film those runs on our smart-phones, and call it gospel, and THEN we'll have our bragging rights back!!".

Can you hear that train?? It's chug-chug-chuggin', comin' on 'round that bend...

[69bossnine]

Originally Posted by Barracuda

Good way to look at it. When you put two car side by side on the strip (or the street), what people (at least the drivers) notice most when the race is done is not the difference in their ETs or Trap Speeds, but how far apart the cars are when the first one crosses the finish line.

Assuming you're using the MT numbers (11.6@125.7 vs 12.1@117.4) as the best available direct comparison, it would be less than 6 car lengths. To be more accurate, when the GT500 crosses at 126 MPH, the ZL1 is 0.5 seconds from finishing. At the time, it is going less than 117 MPH (assuming it's still accelerating up to it's 117.4 trap speed). So at that point, it's closer to 5 car lengths.

Still A LOT in my opinion.

Fair comment... I agree..

And we ALL KNOW that when you're racing 1/4-mile, and you're 4-5 lengths and-growing behind your nemesis, well... Your weenie is basically inverted inside your pelvis at that point...

I still have vivid memories of a hot Supra turbo serving me up that flacid feeling...

[porcupinekiller]

Originally Posted by hognutz

the Boss 302 was in repsons to the M3 in reality and that is documented. So I guess you can thank BMW for the new GT500.

The whole benchmark for that car was teh M3's time around laguna seca. then it ended up lapping just as fast as the GT500 did a the time becasue the GT500 has issues at the track.

chevy's was not aming at the GT500 with ZL1 unlike many ford fans think. you don't go to germany and run the ring to compete with a 1/4 mile car. they were trying to make an M3 like balanced sports car. Same way the CTS-v went after the M5. ford does not publish the times right or wrong so that marketing scheme is not directed at ford as much.

Now the internet has naturally make it a gt500 vs ZL1 thing becaue mustang vs camaro is more natural but in reality they were both trying to up there handlling to compete with the german cars.

that is the true history here like it or not. It was not ford vs chevy.

Guess you missed this. Back when the ZL1 was still being reffered to as the Z28.
http://www.camaro5.com/new-photos-ca...-against-gt500
Quoted from the article:
"GM is making no secret of the benchmark they are attempting to clear — the 2010 Ford Mustang GT500. This should help put to rest some doubts as to whether this test mule is indeed the range topping Camaro Z28 model expected to be GM’s answer to the Mustang GT500. Not only is this a GT500, but it’s a 2011 GT500 with Performance Pack! That means it weighs 3750 with 550hp."

[GR8PUMKN]

I think it is really sad that you feel the need to move or delete threads upon your discretion! Isn't there supposed to be rules or is it just your opinion? Everyone has an opinion and a right to voice it ford or Chevy no matter. You moderators take this stuff and the little power you have too seriously.are you supposed to use it to keep discussions or even arguements off the site? I recognize this is a camaro site but you moderators Are ridiculous. What do you get out of closing or deleting threads? Just wondering. Not trying to get kicked off the site.

[cbass]

I gotcha. So you're thinking that the new GT500 will jump around more due to the SRA when it hits uneven surfaces. I'm sure your right ,but I don't know if it will be that much different unless pushed really hard. For me I'm a straight liner so I'm not worried about that end of it.

It will. That's the disadvantage of a SRA. The adavantage is it's a better drag race platform than IRS. On the track I'm sure it will perform very well. It's the pot hole ridden streets where it will suffer.

[tt335ci03cobra]

Originally Posted by strych9

Your advice is solid. I may consider that.

But, I don't keep cars long. I usually trade at least every three years, if not sooner. I've come out roses every time. Still pondering...

Thats an excellent scenario to keep the camaro for another 2 years, then trade into the brand new 2015 mustang that will have all the goodness of the current gen plus an IRS, and be lighter with more power.

There are rumors of a new na 5.8l mach1 with 500hp floating around as well as 450hp for the base gt and 700hp for the gt500. Not huge gains from today's numbers (420,444,662) but still improvements plus an all new chassis with IRS!

It's not like the camaro is a bad car, enjoy that beast then nab a 2015 stang!

[G8GT4now]

The M3 will be challenged by the ATS-V coupe (eventually), not the ZL1.

[2012ZL1]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

I guess you are calling out many Camaro owners here in C5 who keep posting and starting threads about Mustangs. So are you calling the OP an "idjut" for starting a Shelby thread in the ZL1 section? For the most part, the Mustang guys are simply replying to these posts/threads. Just saying.

Yes, there should be no threads on here to discuss the vertues of Shelby.