[toehead93]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

If GM merges the ZL1 and Z/28 (axes the ZL1 variant) and the only HP model is a $75K car, then I will be very disappointed.

Me too, I think that the new C7 Grand Sport Corvette has replaced the C6 Z06 with on track performance being very similar. Hence no need for a NA C7 track monster which allows the new Z06 to be supercharged with the LT-4 and essentially replaces the ZR1 with similar track performance.

The new Camaro SS/1LE with the LT-1 however will not equal the current Z/28 so I believe GM needs to have a higher output LT-1 or another engine all together (LT-?) to fill the gap...plus I'm sure they want direct competition with the GT350. This allows the LT-4 ZL1 to be what it wants to be.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Posaune

Since we are discussing possible options, it would be very easy for GM to create a few other displacements for the Gen V V8 for the Camaro.

If you use the 3.92 bore from the 4.3 V6 and the 3.62 Stroke all of the Gen V V8s share, you get 350CI (349.5 or so actually but close enough).

The 5.3 (roughly 325 CI) could be moved down to the Camaro easily and could be badged as a 327 (for historical reasons). The 5.3 could be tuned to be a sweet and easy upgrade to the V6 but not enough to step on the toes (i.e. sales) of the SS w/LT1. Could share many components and subsystems as the V6 too.

Sure they can do anything, but they won't. They will not introduce a smaller V8 to take the place of the V6 (they need models with good MPG to offset the higher end ones). Also the 5th Gen has set the naming convention now. Performance goes SS to Z/28 to ZL1. No room in there for another lower power V8. Financially and historically there's no reason the LT1 will not be the base V8, though I'm sure it will be rated under the Corvette ratings to ensure the golden rule in GM.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by toehead93

Me too, I think that the new C7 Grand Sport Corvette has replaced the C6 Z06 with on track performance being very similar. Hence no need for a NA C7 track monster which allows the new Z06 to be supercharged with the LT-4 and essentially replaces the ZR1 with similar track performance.

The new Camaro SS/1LE with the LT-1 however will not equal the current Z/28 so I believe GM needs to have a higher output LT-1 or another engine all together (LT-?) to fill the gap...plus I'm sure they want direct competition with the GT350. This allows the LT-4 ZL1 to be what it wants to be.

There is no C7 Grand Sport. It's the Stingray, Stingray withZ51 package and Z06.

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Sure they can do anything, but they won't. They will not introduce a smaller V8 to take the place of the V6 (they need models with good MPG to offset the higher end ones).

Take the place, no, they would never do that. Upgrade option could be done, especially with a 4 cylinder to further off set FE concerns. It would have to be done so as to pull V6 buyers up, but not SS buyers down.

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Financially and historically there's no reason the LT1 will not be the base V8, though I'm sure it will be rated under the Corvette ratings to ensure the golden rule in GM.

I could argue that historically, the smaller V8 help lead the higher sales volume the Camaro used to command. The smaller V8 was dropped for the 4th Gen and after the first two full years of production (94 and 95, 93 wasn't a full year) sales dropped drastically and never recovered, even after the return of the SS model.

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by Posaune

Take the place, no, they would never do that. Upgrade option could be done, especially with a 4 cylinder to further off set FE concerns. It would have to be done so as to pull V6 buyers up, but not SS buyers down.
I could argue that historically, the smaller V8 help lead the higher sales volume the Camaro used to command. The smaller V8 was dropped for the 4th Gen and after the first two full years of production (94 and 95, 93 wasn't a full year) sales dropped drastically and never recovered, even after the return of the SS model.

The 5th Gen is the best selling muscle car 5 years in a row, so obviously there is no reason to make a smaller V8 option. The price margin between the LT and SS is too small to allow another engine option in to begin with. Not that Chevy couldn't fix that, but they have no motivation to do so from a market perspective.

The real wildcard here is the turbo 4 option. Currently it is not as powerful as the V6 and not any better in terms of MPG. If the 2.0T is to be the base engine for the Camaro, it's going to need a better selling point. I wouldn't be surprised to see it become an upgrade over the V6, but there's nothing to support that based on current designs.

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

The 5th Gen is the best selling muscle car 5 years in a row, so obviously there is no reason to make a smaller V8 option. The price margin between the LT and SS is too small to allow another engine option in to begin with. Not that Chevy couldn't fix that, but they have no motivation to do so from a market perspective.

The real wildcard here is the turbo 4 option. Currently it is not as powerful as the V6 and not any better in terms of MPG. If the 2.0T is to be the base engine for the Camaro, it's going to need a better selling point. I wouldn't be surprised to see it become an upgrade over the V6, but there's nothing to support that based on current designs.

Have to disagree about the price margin being to close.
Here is how the current price structure is:
LS ( basic entry level price for a 5th Gen) $24,700
LT $27,000
1SS $34,500
So it is $7500 between the LT and 1SS and $9,800 between the LS and 1SS.

Nearly $10K to get into a V8 Camaro above the starting price. Now, Let me preface this that it should not be a first year option when V8 (1 or 2SS) has the best chance to outsell the V6. With the 5th Gen it was (IIRC) 2012 when the V6 outsold the V8. Make it a second year option as an upgrade to the V6 for roughly $1500. (please note I'm using the Silverado line as a very loose guide. On the cheapest Silverado (RCSB) the upgrade to the 5.3 from the 4.3 V6 is an $1100 option) Coincidentally, the second year of the 6th Gen (2017) will be the 50th anniversary of the Camaro. Would be a tremendous opportunity to capture additional sales (and profit!).

Tuned for similar (albeit slightly higher) power and torque as the V6, they could share many of the same subsystems (brakes, structural reinforcement, etc...) it would be easy profit above the V6 for those who either don't need or can't get a 1 (or 2)SS with the 450 HP V8. While it may have slightly worse FE than the V6, it should still do well enough on the CAFE test to not overly harm the entire program as a whole since the 8 speed auto or 7 speed manual should be the transmission available. Some people would like to have a V8 and have great FE to boot.

Furthermore, it would offer something Mustang does not, a very accessible V8 for the average Joe.

The Challenger does offer still offer a "Mid level" V8. For price comparison it is $4500 above the V6 price (while the price difference between the V6 and regular V8 is $11,500). Granted, I don't consider the Challenger to be a pony car since it was really intended to be a competitor to a GTO size type coupe.

[SuperSound]

Good point, I was thinking more of the price difference from 2LT to 1SS. $1100 could be viable. I never thought of the 5.7L in the Challenger mid level, but you are right. The 392 is now the benchmark since the introduction of the Hellcat and Scat Pack. So at least GM has a reason to offer a lower price V8 option to compete with the RT, but I don't think they are worried about it based on sales. Will have to wait and see how the RT and RT Scat Pack sale in comparison.

[SPCBA]

highly doubt GM will take anything out of dodges play book. Not exactly a model of excellence.

[Posaune]

Originally Posted by SPCBA

highly doubt GM will take anything out of dodges play book. Not exactly a model of excellence.

Nah, they just need to open a few more pages in their own playbook. A few pages they haven't used in a while.

[Q'smuscle]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Good point, I was thinking more of the price difference from 2LT to 1SS. $1100 could be viable. I never thought of the 5.7L in the Challenger mid level, but you are right. The 392 is now the benchmark since the introduction of the Hellcat and Scat Pack. So at least GM has a reason to offer a lower price V8 option to compete with the RT, but I don't think they are worried about it based on sales. Will have to wait and see how the RT and RT Scat Pack sale in comparison.

What did you see the 5.7 R/T as? Just curious!

[SuperSound]

Was looking at 5.7L as the direct competition for the SS and Mustang GT. But now with the Scat Pack, you have to treat it like the "poor man's" V8 in the Challenger.