[alcal1084]

Originally Posted by 90503

...I thought top speed was determined by the rating for the stock tires....Nothing to do with the type of engine....

The stock tires on the ZL1 are rated to go faster then the top speed of the car and if it wasn't they would have put different tires on the car. I would expect the next gen camaro to have michelin's

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Or GM is reducing the number of engines to the bare minimum. That's probablu why the LT4 is in the Z06, CTS-V and likely Z Camaro. GM can't protect the Corvette because they don't have enough engines to do it.

Fact is GM didn't develop another lesser engine for the CTS in order to make the LT4 exclusive to Corvette. GM's first forays into 500 and 600 HP engines were somewhat exotic builds with special assembly. Not the case with the LT4 so its budget friendly for the CTS-V and Camaro.

The pervious GT500 already offered a ~3900 lb, 662 HP car so the gen6 Camaro will need every bit of the LT4 to answer what has already been done. I anticipate more LT variants will come.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

Fact is GM didn't develop another lesser engine for the CTS in order to make the LT4 exclusive to Corvette. GM's first forays into 500 and 600 HP engines were somewhat exotic builds with special assembly. Not the case with the LT4 so its budget friendly for the CTS-V and Camaro.

The pervious GT500 already offered a ~3900 lb, 662 HP car so the gen6 Camaro will need every bit of the LT4 to answer what has already been done. I anticipate more LT variants will come.

Ford knows the Camaro won't make more than 650 hp. That gives them a huge advantage when it comes to building the next gen GT500. Will the next gen GT500 make more than 707 hp? I don't know but it doesn't have to in order to beat the Hellcat.

I honestly don't see what else they will do with the LTx. They already skipped to the 6.2 liter and supercharged variants. They tried to build a 7.0 liter and it failed to meet emissions. They won't change from 6.2 liters because that bore and stroke works well for the AFM.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Ford knows the Camaro won't make more than 650 hp. That gives them a huge advantage when it comes to building the next gen GT500. Will the next gen GT500 make more than 707 hp? I don't know but it doesn't have to in order to beat the Hellcat.

I honestly don't see what else they will do with the LTx. They already skipped to the 6.2 liter and supercharged variants. They tried to build a 7.0 liter and it failed to meet emissions. They won't change from 6.2 liters because that bore and stroke works well for the AFM.

It's hard to imagine the LT4 as the end of GM's performance engine development in the current environment.

Z06 is Corvettes track model and I wouldn't be surprised to see the Z/28 follow it with the LT4. Neither really advances Chevy's street cred.

The 8L90 was designed to handle 738 lb-ft yet the LT4 makes 650 lb-ft. There is room to go big if they can hook it up. Bigger displacement blown engine?

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Ford knows the Camaro won't make more than 650 hp. That gives them a huge advantage when it comes to building the next gen GT500. Will the next gen GT500 make more than 707 hp? I don't know but it doesn't have to in order to beat the Hellcat.

I honestly don't see what else they will do with the LTx. They already skipped to the 6.2 liter and supercharged variants. They tried to build a 7.0 liter and it failed to meet emissions. They won't change from 6.2 liters because that bore and stroke works well for the AFM.

Bhobbs, 1, how does Ford know and 2, how do you know what Ford knows and 3 - how do you know what GM knows?

GM's track record for the LSA alone shows GM will strive to do better for the Camaro when it is necessary.

650 is the current number but there is nothing inherent to the LT4 that would suggest it is maxed out.

And I very much doubt GM would ever come out and say that, true or not.

Are there tweaks left to get to 700? Sure, everybody in the aftermarket will get 700 plus if they want to improve cooling, intake volume and temperature, boost, compression, etc., all tweaks GM can play with if they want or need to.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Bhobbs, 1, how does Ford know and 2, how do you know what Ford knows and 3 - how do you know what GM knows?

GM's track record for the LSA alone shows GM will strive to do better for the Camaro when it is necessary.

650 is the current number but there is nothing inherent to the LT4 that would suggest it is maxed out.

And I very much doubt GM would ever come out and say that, true or not.

Are there tweaks left to get to 700? Sure, everybody in the aftermarket will get 700 plus if they want to improve cooling, intake volume and temperature, boost, compression, etc., all tweaks GM can play with if they want or need to.

Can you point to a recent time where the Camaro and Corvette shared an engine in which the Camaro version made more power than the Corvette version?

Sure; the ZL1 made more power than the CTS-V but that's not going to happen this time.

Ok, I don't lnow 100% but based on GMs history, it's not that difficult to predict.

I never said the LT4 was tapped out but factory engines never are.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by hotlapZL1

It's hard to imagine the LT4 as the end of GM's performance engine development in the current environment.

Z06 is Corvettes track model and I wouldn't be surprised to see the Z/28 follow it with the LT4. Neither really advances Chevy's street cred.

The 8L90 was designed to handle 738 lb-ft yet the LT4 makes 650 lb-ft. There is room to go big if they can hook it up. Bigger displacement blown engine?

It's not that hard. The Z06 is a combination of the previous Z06 and ZR1. It covers both price ranges more or less. They have no need for any more engines.

They may use it for the HD trucks, who knows. They already said they can't fit turbos in the C7 and having two supercharged cars makes no sense.

Rumors are the 6th gen Z/28 will do the same and combine the current Z/28 and ZL1.

Turbo 4 base car
LGX V6
LT1 SS
LT4 Z/28

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Can you point to a recent time where the Camaro and Corvette shared an engine in which the Camaro version made more power than the Corvette version?

Sure; the ZL1 made more power than the CTS-V but that's not going to happen this time.

Ok, I don't lnow 100% but based on GMs history, it's not that difficult to predict.

I never said the LT4 was tapped out but factory engines never are.

I was just funning with you. Hope you got that

The issue wasn't if they were higher but if they would detune an engine simply because it was in the Camaro. I vote no. And I don't think they will protect the CTS-V this time any more than the last.

But that, my good sir, is one mans opinion.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I was just funning with you. Hope you got that

The issue wasn't if they were higher but if they would detune an engine simply because it was in the Camaro. I vote no. And I don't think they will protect the CTS-V this time any more than the last.

But that, my good sir, is one mans opinion.

Oh it's all good. I missed the smiley face from your post.

I don't expect them to protect the CTS-V but I would be very surprised if the 6th gen Z car made more than the C7 Z06.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Oh it's all good. I missed the smiley face from your post.

I don't expect them to protect the CTS-V but I would be very surprised if the 6th gen Z car made more than the C7 Z06.

See now you are posing probably a far more interesting question.

Not that they would detune the LT4 for the Camaro but would they actually "tune UP" the Camaro for a higher number than the Z06.

I would suggest that at that point both Camaro and Corvette would BOTH get the benefits.

Much of that will be the competitive landscape.

For example if the GT500 comes out at 708 hp for example. GM may have to respond to keep the Camaro in that game.

And in the end do the simple math:

30,000 units x $70,000 vs. 100,000 units x $35,000

Camaro sales $$ should be the higher of the two. Profit is another question, but there is a lot invested in keeping Camaro sales high.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Number 3

See now you are posing probably a far more interesting question.

Not that they would detune the LT4 for the Camaro but would they actually "tune UP" the Camaro for a higher number than the Z06.

I would suggest that at that point both Camaro and Corvette would BOTH get the benefits.

Much of that will be the competitive landscape.

For example if the GT500 comes out at 708 hp for example. GM may have to respond to keep the Camaro in that game.

And in the end do the simple math:

30,000 units x $70,000 vs. 100,000 units x $35,000

Camaro sales $$ should be the higher of the two. Profit is another question, but there is a lot invested in keeping Camaro sales high.

I would love to see the LT4 bumped up for the Camaro. If the Camaro loses 150-200 lbs, the Z Camaro would weigh about 3950 lbs. The LT4 would have to make 730 hp to give it the same power to weight ratio as the Z06. Would GM give the cheaper Camaro such a massive increase in power? They may have to in order to compete with the GT500. I'm sure the 5.8 Trinity was a shock they don't want happening again.

Maybe they plan on doing exactly that. That may be why the 8L90 was built for such a high torque capacity that the LT4 doesn't come close to exceeding.

[ilirg]

I know its highly unlikely but it would be awesome if they gave the zl1 an lt4 version with a bigger blower.

[DDoug]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Or GM is reducing the number of engines to the bare minimum. That's probablu why the LT4 is in the Z06, CTS-V and likely Z Camaro. GM can't protect the Corvette because they don't have enough engines to do it.

I bet you're right. I'm at Fiat and we've reduced to a single base architecture for each 4, 6, 8, and 10 cylinder engines. Just different displacements.

We're also doing the same with transmissions. There's going to be 2 architectures. 8 speed rear wheel drive and 9 speed front wheel drive.

[EFoxwell]

1. Not sure why anyone thinks that GM would not put the LT1 in the 6th gen SS. It's basically tradition. C5's had the LS1 and right after the 4th gen F bodies added the LS1(although advertised at less power). The 5th gen inherited the C6's LS3 when it hit the market. It's a foregone conclusion the 6th gen is going to be LT1 powered.

2. Who says GM is interested in winning HP pissing contests? The weren't too worried about addressing the ZL1 when Ford dropped the 2013 GT500. Despite the significantly less amount of power, the ZL1 was still competitive in everything but a straight line race.

3. They just delved into the gen 5 engines. It takes time to develop engines. Looking back on gen 3 engines, GM fun cars (The Vette, Camaro, GTO, Firebird) were limited to only the LS1 and LS6. Then gen 4 hit and we got the LS2, LS7, L76, LS3, LSA, LS9, even the bastard child LS4. We will see plenty of new LT variants, it's just a matter of time.