Motor Trend Head to Head: 2015 Camaro 1LE vs. new 2015 Mustang 5.0 GT PP

[Erik427]

Originally Posted by Firefighter

Stock LS3 is done by 6500 or so. Aftermarket they get into the 7's. TQ starts early on though.

That is undeniably impressive out of 5L.

We have to remember HP is a measurement of TQ. The higher you wind the more HP that can be made.

Like it's been brought up the 358 ci motors of NASCAR wind to 10K and make 750-800 HP. I have no idea of TQ output though.

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Remember, the Coyote/CobraJet are running very high end CNC ported heads. I think the LS3 would turn the same rpm's if ported to the same level. 8,000 rpm's is starting to become the norm for a N/A motor now days.

[Firefighter]

Originally Posted by Erik427

Remember, the Coyote/CobraJet are running very high end CNC ported heads. I think the LS3 would turn the same rpm's if ported to the same level. 8,000 rpm's is starting to become the norm for a N/A motor now days.

With stout mods and valve train upgrade 8K is doable for an LS.

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[Erik427]

Originally Posted by Firefighter

So let me get this straight... the 6th Gen is going to be on a different and smaller platform and get a new direct injected LT1 which will be more powerful than the current LS3 and is being set up by people who obviously know how to do suspension (see video at top of thread) yet it won't touch the current GT which can't beat the current 5th Gen SS. That guy is an idiot...

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Ford screwed up!....and I'm a Ford guy. Great Engine....Horrible car = 2015 Stang.

[Erik427]

Originally Posted by Firefighter

With stout mods and valve train upgrade 8K is doable for an LS.

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There are Guys doing just that...I cannot deny this fact. A 600+hp N/A LS3 build that can turn 8,000 is very doable in this day and time. While running pump gas too. I remember that not to long ago, 600hp meant that you had a blower or turbo.

[Firefighter]

Originally Posted by Erik427

There are Guys doing just that...I cannot deny this fact. A 600+hp N/A LS3 build that can turn 8,000 is very doable in this day and time. While running pump gas too. I remember that not to long ago, 600hp meant that you had a blower or turbo.

These are great times technology wise for us gear heads. IDK about you but I remember times when a Corvette came with an "HO Motor" that had 250 HP and 300 TQ. When a 454 BBC had roughly the same HP and more TQ. Those are 6 cylinder performance figures of today.

I say in general this is the true Pony Car HP wars... think about the fact that the behemoth of a Challenger has 707 HP. It just pushes the other guys Chevy and Ford to make faster cars.

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[cbass]

Originally Posted by GONIF

Lets not get silly with 3 cams ,it's how the cams are actuated and how much air they flow . But yes better brakes on the Camaro would be nice , how about the CTS V brakes , they are right on GM's shelf and would be a welcome addition .

HP/L is just so out of date a measurement these days. I'm all about the new standard HP/Valve. The LS3 makes 26.625 HP/Valve where the coyote only makes a sad 13.125 HP/Valve. Half as much!

[Firefighter]

Originally Posted by cbass

HP/L is just so out of date a measurement these days. I'm all about the new standard HP/Valve. The LS3 makes 26.625 HP/Valve where the coyote only makes a sad 13.125 HP/Valve. Half as much!

LMAO...

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[GONIF]

What CAFE has to do with it is , GM and all other manufacturers want to continue to produce performance cars ,big SUV's (gas hogs) that have a high profit margins . So they need to produce a lot of fuel efficient 4 and 6 cylinder cars to get to an acceptable CAFE number hence the 3.6 Camaro ,and next year a 4 cylinder . And they need to sell cars to people who can make a monthly payment on the car and pay for auto insurance . A v8 Camaro cost more to insure then a v6 Camaro. Also some folks like the way the Camaro looks and just want a nice ride and don't want more power . So the 3.6 Camaro fit the bill . They had the 3.5,3.8.3.4 OHV engine ,but found the 3.6 OHC to be a better fit for their needs ,and 320 HP isn't bad at all . The last internal combustion engine's made B4 we move on to something better ( probably electric ) will be high tech wonders ,and I can assure you they will not have push rods and OHV . What ever happens you can bet the government will tax the shit out of any form of energy ,and people will want to pay as little as possible for fuel ,knowing that a full 1/3 of the price is fed and stat tax, . So the days of the vehicles that don't deliver the goods will be over. Hence the auto manufacturers that survive will be the innovators that comply with all the government regs and deliver transportation that people want and can afford to drive . OHV will be out ,and OHC will still just be a temp band aid till the next great thing comes down the line . at my age I might not see it ,but it is coming none the less . It is called progress . Anyone remember the Ford flathead V8 that took the auto industry by storm in the 30's ? How about the 1949 Cadillac OHV ? Point is we need to welcome not shun innovation . Most of you guys don't remember a time B4 cell phones ,when a dime would get you a local phone call in a ( rotary dial )phone booth . don't see many pay phones these days .

[Erik427]

Originally Posted by Firefighter

These are great times technology wise for us gear heads. IDK about you but I remember times when a Corvette came with an "HO Motor" that had 250 HP and 300 TQ. When a 454 BBC had roughly the same HP and more TQ. Those are 6 cylinder performance figures of today.

I say in general this is the true Pony Car HP wars... think about the fact that the behemoth of a Challenger has 707 HP. It just pushes the other guys Chevy and Ford to make faster cars.

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A person cannot really go wrong with any brand. I remember very well when 225-250 hp was considered fast. I'm getting old.

[cbass]

Originally Posted by GONIF

What CAFE has to do with it is , GM and all other manufacturers want to continue to produce performance cars ,big SUV's (gas hogs) that have a high profit margins . So they need to produce a lot of fuel efficient 4 and 6 cylinder cars to get to an acceptable CAFE number hence the 3.6 Camaro ,and next year a 4 cylinder . And they need to sell cars to people who can make a monthly payment on the car and pay for auto insurance . A v8 Camaro cost more to insure then a v6 Camaro. Also some folks like the way the Camaro looks and just want a nice ride and don't want more power . So the 3.6 Camaro fit the bill . They had the 3.5,3.8.3.4 OHV engine ,but found the 3.6 OHC to be a better fit for their needs ,and 320 HP isn't bad at all . The last internal combustion engine's made B4 we move on to something better ( probably electric ) will be high tech wonders ,and I can assure you they will not have push rods and OHV . What ever happens you can bet the government will tax the shit out of any form of energy ,and people will want to pay as little as possible for fuel ,knowing that a full 1/3 of the price is fed and stat tax, . So the days of the vehicles that don't deliver the goods will be over. Hence the auto manufacturers that survive will be the innovators that comply with all the government regs and deliver transportation that people want and can afford to drive . OHV will be out ,and OHC will still just be a temp band aid till the next great thing comes down the line . at my age I might not see it ,but it is coming none the less . It is called progress . Anyone remember the Ford flathead V8 that took the auto industry by storm in the 30's ? How about the 1949 Cadillac OHV ? Point is we need to welcome not shun innovation . Most of you guys don't remember a time B4 cell phones ,when a dime would get you a local phone call in a ( rotary dial )phone booth . don't see many pay phones these days .

Welcome innovation? You are making it seem like the OHV engine has stood still and nothing was innovated. That can't be further from the truth. Using pushrods does not mean innovation has stood still.

And I hate to get political, but one particular party likes taxing the crap out of us into misery. The other side does not. I lived in Chicago for 28 years and the same leadership there is what is making states like New York and California expensive bankrupt messes with high energy costs and has actually succeeded in bankrupting Detroit. People will like to tell you all government is the same, but it is not. The two parties have different ideals and ideas on how things should be run. They are all not the same like people will try to convince you.

Anyways, you should chose one of these manufacturers that innovates or get a V6 or better yet a blown four in the six generation camaro (if one comes) and leave these POS pushrod engines to us luddites. There is plenty of OHC engines for you to chose and not much for us to chose. Why do you want to take this away from us when you have plenty of options but we don't?

[Firefighter]

Damn GONIF way to make me feel old... Rotary pay phones and dimes... WTF?

LoL...

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[GONIF]

Originally Posted by Firefighter

Damn GONIF way to make me feel old... Rotary pay phones and dimes... WTF?

LoL...

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Yea ,it makes me feel old too . I can remember it like it was yesterday .
It was a world away from cell phones with Bluetooth and Mylink . And the only TAPTalk was morse code . 8 track tapes Carbs, points ,and dating High school girls . Those were fun times.

[Firefighter]

Originally Posted by GONIF

Yea ,it makes me feel old too . I can remember it like it was yesterday .
It was a world away from cell phones with Bluetooth and Mylink . And the only TAPTalk was morse code . 8 track tapes Carbs, points ,and dating High school girls . Those were fun times.

LOL... remember when the mobile phone in your car took up 1/2 your trunk and then they got small it was the same phone and you carried a damn motorcycle battery with you? LoL

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[GretchenGotGrowl]

Originally Posted by Firefighter

Damn GONIF way to make me feel old... Rotary pay phones and dimes... WTF?

LoL...

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Originally Posted by GONIF

Yea ,it makes me feel old too . I can remember it like it was yesterday .
It was a world away from cell phones with Bluetooth and Mylink . And the only TAPTalk was morse code . 8 track tapes Carbs, points ,and dating High school girls . Those were fun times.

Remember how happy you were when you found a drive-up pay phone? Didn't even have to get out of the car.