[KMPrenger]

Why in the world no magazine has done an actual, real, head-to-head comparison of the 1LE versus the regular 350 just blows my mind. Sure, we've seen lots of data to back up arguments, and lots of mentions of one another in the same article. But no gauntlet thrown down..."here it is boys" comparison. Why? Only two things I can come up with...Magazines are stupid and have somehow not seen this comparison as being worth it....OR...Ford wouldn't allow it.

As for the new GTPP...whether or not its compared to the regular SS or the 1LE I don't care. Either will tell us where the GTPP stands in relation to the SS or 1LE if compared to the other version of Camaro.

When it comes to these two "track-ish" versions, Mustang will have the price advantage again I'm thinking. I'm estimating PP added to a base GT will put the car at around a 38 - 41 price tag range, while the 1LE starts at 42. But the Camaro *should* have the performance edge on the track, and a bit more content.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Not to be a smart ass or anything, but just because you didn't see something, and think that is funny, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I have seen many things, from Randy Pobst stating how much a difference the carbon fiber wheels on the GT350 make to articles where folks tested the differences, like here:

http://blog.caranddriver.com/tested-...-fiber-wheels/

And simple physics. Reducing rotational mass reduces inertia in an exponential relationship, not a linear one. The impact of reducing the rotational and unsprung mass by 58 lbs. has a huge impact. Not an opinion, just the facts. Please do some research if you haven't seen enough data. Google is your friend. There is plenty of data out there showing the benefits of lighter wheels.

Trust me, I'm quite familiar with moment of inertia. I fully understand the impact of reducing rotational and unsprung mass. The full benefit of forged and composite wheels is the reduced mass in the rim (I was a wheel designer in a previous life). Keep in mind that while reducing 58lbs is significant, the closer the weight reduction is to the axis of rotation, the lesser the advantage it has on the vehicle dynamics.

With that said, I stand by my comment. Exactly how much of performance was gained by using the lightweight wheels VS better rubber? What about the extra .5 inch width on the tires...exactly what role did that play in the time reduction.

In regards to the rest of your post, nearly everything I have posted has been presented as speculation....because it is just that. Almost all my posts with unproven theorys contain phrases like..."I beleive" or "I think". Is it wishfull thinking...perhaps. Is it a possibility, yes.

Nearly every post you have made has been presented as fact...when in all reality, it too is entirely speculation.

Do we know if the MY18 is going to gain or lose weight? Nope.
Do we know if the MY18 is going to compete with the 1le? Nope
Do we know if the MY18 is going to have 455 hp? Nope
Do we know if the GT350 is going to have the MPSS or PS4? Nope
Do we know that Ford won't sneak subtle chassis or magneride tweaks into the GT350? Nope
Has Ford released information to the general public stating the GT350 will be 100% the same as the MY17? Nope

You see where I'm going with this, right? All speculation.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by khell86

I wonder if the GT350 will get the new MP tires like the GTPP does.

I for the life of me can't imagine the GT350 will get inferior shoes to the GTPP. I'm not even sure the MPSS will still be produced in the future.

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Why in the world no magazine has done an actual, real, head-to-head comparison of the 1LE versus the regular 350 just blows my mind. Sure, we've seen lots of data to back up arguments, and lots of mentions of one another in the same article. But no gauntlet thrown down..."here it is boys" comparison. Why? Only two things I can come up with...Magazines are stupid and have somehow not seen this comparison as being worth it....OR...Ford wouldn't allow it.

As for the new GTPP...whether or not its compared to the regular SS or the 1LE I don't care. Either will tell us where the GTPP stands in relation to the SS or 1LE if compared to the other version of Camaro.

My gut tells me the GTPP will fall in-between the SS and 1LE. As to which side it will lean to...who knows. It's a step in the right direction at least.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Why in the world no magazine has done an actual, real, head-to-head comparison of the 1LE versus the regular 350 just blows my mind. Sure, we've seen lots of data to back up arguments, and lots of mentions of one another in the same article. But no gauntlet thrown down..."here it is boys" comparison. Why? Only two things I can come up with...Magazines are stupid and have somehow not seen this comparison as being worth it....OR...Ford wouldn't allow it.

As for the new GTPP...whether or not its compared to the regular SS or the 1LE I don't care. Either will tell us where the GTPP stands in relation to the SS or 1LE if compared to the other version of Camaro.

When it comes to these two "track-ish" versions, Mustang will have the price advantage again I'm thinking. I'm estimating PP added to a base GT will put the car at around a 38 - 41 price tag range, while the 1LE starts at 42. But the Camaro *should* have the performance edge on the track, and a bit more content.

The question I have more is, why there are squat for track times period. This gt350 has been out for nearly 1.5 years and was built for the track, yet only 2 track times have been posted. The 1le just came out and already has more. My thought is that Ford know the times won't be that great thus the need for the 350R. Any review you read, all they talk about is the FP engine, never hear about track times. I think Ford just won't send a gt350 to any track test and will only send the R.

[mcsoul]

I tried to read through the salt, is the 2018 GT going to get MRC as an option or not?

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by mcsoul

I tried to read through the salt, is the 2018 GT going to get MRC as an option or not?

Yes it is.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by mcsoul

I tried to read through the salt, is the 2018 GT going to get MRC as an option or not?

It will be a option with the PP package. Don't know if it will be a option by itself like the SS.

[SS 1LE]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Why in the world no magazine has done an actual, real, head-to-head comparison of the 1LE versus the regular 350 just blows my mind. Sure, we've seen lots of data to back up arguments, and lots of mentions of one another in the same article. But no gauntlet thrown down..."here it is boys" comparison. Why? Only two things I can come up with...Magazines are stupid and have somehow not seen this comparison as being worth it....OR...Ford wouldn't allow it.

As for the new GTPP...whether or not its compared to the regular SS or the 1LE I don't care. Either will tell us where the GTPP stands in relation to the SS or 1LE if compared to the other version of Camaro.

When it comes to these two "track-ish" versions, Mustang will have the price advantage again I'm thinking. I'm estimating PP added to a base GT will put the car at around a 38 - 41 price tag range, while the 1LE starts at 42. But the Camaro *should* have the performance edge on the track, and a bit more content.

A GT PP2 with the premium package and Recaros I bet will be low 40's easy, probably around 42. The SS 1LE is $44,400 with everything but PDR (another thing the pony is lacking). As mentioned above, I can see the GT PP2 possibly besting a regular SS on run flats, but no way in hell is it going to touch a SS 1LE. If it does best the regular SS, I bet GM offers better tires as an option on the regular SS. Easy, cheap fix...

[IOMike]

Originally Posted by Mustang Fanboy

Very lol. I won't be let down if the 18 GT PP comes out slower than the 1LE...as I don't/won't own either. I'm not a huge fan of presenting speculation as facts though.

It's salty on both "sides".

Perhaps petty would have been a better word.

[ULTRAZLS1]

If you look up salty in the dictionary it will point you to a certain website in 2015.

Nothing has ever or will ever compare to that. Epic.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by SS 1LE

A GT PP2 with the premium package and Recaros I bet will be low 40's easy, probably around 42. The SS 1LE is $44,400 with everything but PDR (another thing the pony is lacking). As mentioned above, I can see the GT PP2 possibly besting a regular SS on run flats, but no way in hell is it going to touch a SS 1LE. If it does best the regular SS, I bet GM offers better tires as an option on the regular SS. Easy, cheap fix...

The msrp on the existing PP with premium and Recaros is already $42,865. I would fully expect that price to bump up another $500-$1000 for the obligatory inflation as well as the added cost of the Michelin PS4 tires and higher end suspension bits. Keep in mind, this is without the shaker audio package and also without navigation. The prices are surely going to rival the SS...what it's going to come down to is what rebates are offered.

As for the PDR, I'm quite curious if Ford is going to incorporate the track app built into the 2017 Ford GT. It was the first to get the spiffy new digital cluster, and they claim it will trickle down into lower models.

website: http://blog.caranddriver.com/new-app...rack-exploits/

"Drawing information from Ford’s Sync 3 infotainment system, the app will provide its users with vehicle performance data integrated with overlays of the course, timing statistics, and virtual gauges. That can be coupled with video captured with a smartphone’s built-in camera. Previous systems captured similar information, but it remained embedded in the vehicle."

and...

"Ford said the performance app should be available for “the most popular smartphone platforms” sometime in 2017, although a specific date hasn’t yet been set. It will first be available on the 2017 Ford GT and eventually migrate to other vehicles in the automaker’s lineup."

The question is, will this be offered as an add on, or simply offered to all in the base level. All of the data is already being recorded, you would simply need a smartphone and the app to compile the data. Instant PDR without the cost.

[Richard0nee]

If the GT with PP2 can beat a regular SS in a straight line and on the tracks, my hats off to Ford.

However, just adding tires, probably be 455 HP and 420 torque while weighing the same isn't going to cut it. But it will close the gap.

The reason why the SS add so well is the Alpha chasis (1SS can weigh around ~3600 lbs on 1/8 gas http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=436603), torque/HPP and suspension. Will the GT with PP2 have engine/tranny/diff coolers as well because that's pretty important especially on bigger tracks like Big Willow, Nurbrugring, etc.

Just because Ford got a 10 speed tranny, ~20-30hp/torque bump, new tires doesn't make it all of a sudden a track monster. Chassis is key and after that it's how everything is put together. Excessive wheel hop is one of the struggles of the IRS with Mustang. They should improve for this refresh.

[Mustang Fanboy]

Originally Posted by Richard0nee

If the GT with PP2 can beat a regular SS in a straight line and on the tracks, my hats off to Ford.

However, just adding tires, probably be 455 HP and 420 torque while weighing the same isn't going to cut it. But it will close the gap.

The reason why the SS add so well is the Alpha chasis (1SS can weigh around ~3600 lbs on 1/8 gas http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=436603), torque/HPP and suspension. Will the GT with PP2 have engine/tranny/diff coolers as well because that's pretty important especially on bigger tracks like Big Willow, Nurbrugring, etc.

Just because Ford got a 10 speed tranny, ~20-30hp/torque bump, new tires doesn't make it all of a sudden a track monster. Chassis is key and after that it's how everything is put together. Excessive wheel hop is one of the struggles of the IRS with Mustang. They should improve for this refresh.

It's not just a tranny, hp/tq and tie upgrade. There has also been chassis upgrades, lighter wheels and the tuned magneride suspension. Again, no one really knows how well this is going to perform...or how well it will compare to the 1le.

[ParisTNDude]

I think it looks great! I drove a 17 and the shakes and rattles were obvious and it felt old and wallowy! I much prefer my Camaro. They would have to make a lot more HP to come close to the bone stock times of our Camaros. Still very nice cars, but I will keep my Camaro.