[ccw]

Originally Posted by Scottyz

Not the type of answer I was hoping to read from the dealer.
But also kinda not surprised.��

Yes, I'm beyond frustrated with this dealer. So far, they aren't stepping up. Courthouses are still closed here until after Memorial Day Weekend. If I don't have this resolved by then this will be handled like any other client case in my office. I'm really hoping we can work out some sort of fair resolution prior to that.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Your warranty does not cover any modifications you make, but I believe the dealer would need to show that your modifications caused the failure for it to not be covered under warranty. Just because there are modifications and it failed is not causation. In some cases, modifications can be easy to assessed as contributory, but in others, not so much. I would send a certified mail letter and ask them to state exactly what has failed and how the modification caused this failure. Additionally, you state the conditions under which you brought the car, how it ran, what precautions you took, etc. If there is already a likely scenario, like they filled the engine with coolant, it might be worth it to somehow weave that into the letter and ask how this was ruled out. Also, if something like that is likely, find all the symptoms (what would happen) and be sure to state that "if this was what happened, this would have been the outcome...", explaining that the outcome matches that scenario.

One reason they say "no" is because there's no official record of it and if you go away, no one has to answer for it at a higher level, get blamed, etc. Saying "no" is the easiest thing they can do. Whether it's the right thing depends. If it were my business, if something like that happened, I'd have the mechanic write a statement on what they did, sign it, probably come in and describe it thoroughly, make sure that the shop investigated it to show it wasn't the fault of the shop/mechanic and go from there. Not just conjecture, but really why it happened and what failed, to "clear" the shop. That's a pretty significant event to happen in a shop, so again, I'd expect this level of investigation. If it doesn't happen, I'd immediately be suspicious.

As soon as something like that happens, I'm done talking to people or taking emails for attempts at resolution, except as necessary for logistics and then immediately writing a summary of the conversation and signing the statement. Although slower, all correspondence should be through registered mail and request a reply within 10 business days. The fact that someone at the dealership has to sign for this letter usually sets off flags for any competent business (as in we may be about to get sued...maybe we can avoid it?). The suggestions to take it to an independent certified mechanic and get a diagnosis are spot on, get at least a couple. If they can confirm some scenario such as filling it with coolant, no oil/plug or a non-modified (affected) part, then you'll have a good case to take them to at least small claims court, maybe a civil suit. Make out a written statement for every phone call or conversation you've had with the dealership personnel, sign the statement. These will be used to track their consistency.

I've had to go through this process several times in life and help out a few other people close to me, sending a letter, inquiring, serving as notice, asking for response, to deal with several issues, one of which was with my Chevy. For weeks they told me they couldn't figure out what was wrong with my car, blamed it on bad gas, claimed I had stored the car for a year when I hadn't even owned it for a year (and was driving it the whole time), then made other accusatory and conflicting claims. I logged all these claims and wrote them down, signed statements, showed their pattern of not being able to make a diagnosis, baseless accusations, showed my receipts for "top tier" gas, and invoked the lemon law, where they had told me 2 previous times what the diagnosis was (it's kind of a 3-strikes and your out thing). I asked for the problem to be fixed or for them to buy it back. Things got fixed real fast with that official correspondence (written record). No further issues.

I'm not a lawyer, but I work a lot with them and if you can make a good case, IME you can usually solve these kinds of issues without going to court, but written correspondence is key. If they start doing dumb things, saying dumb stuff, sending inconsistent replies...you should be able to cream them in court. Any two-bit contract lawyer will tell the company to settle or make things right and the idiots stupid enough to go to court will get creamed. You might have to go back and forth a few times, but get them to make a written response. If you can show that they were just trying to wash their hands of you and not actually investigate, that's an additional tick against them.

But all this hinges upon being able to show this, most likely to a preponderance of evidence standard, that the car failed due to their negligence or something under warranty (and not affected by modification). If you don't have this, then you have to unfortunately suck it up. I've had those kinds of situations too where it was on me and nothing I could do. Had a car stuck on some rocks because it got dragged down a snowy ditch. The tow-company got it stuck on the rocks, but I couldn't say they were negligent for doing what was necessary, even though it damaged the vehicle further.

I also try to offer a "path" in the letter for them to do "the right thing"...again, hinging upon if you have a good case. This may come in a subsequent letter. Maybe one that lays out the facts like a case...

Good luck.

[BlaqWhole]

You do not need valet mode. Simply, do not give someone your keys and walk away from the car for 3 hours. Do not use valet at hotels, restaurants, or anywhere. This is a $70K car. If you are that trusting of a $70K car that has 650 HP stock then you deserve whatever happens. No responsible owner would ever entrust a complete strange with a car on this level. Hell, I wouldn't even trust them with a SS. You don't pass anyone your keys and walk away and be completely oblivious to what is happening to your car. If you do hand over your keys, then you stay within earshot and you pay attention to your car and what is happening to it. You hear someone revving it, you go running and tell them to knock it off. You hear it going down the street and you were there for just an oil change, then you better be on foot like fckuin Usain Bolt running behind them. If that is too much then please do not buy one of these cars. It obviously is not for you. These things need to be closely monitored at all times.

[BlaqWhole]

Not for nothin, I hope OP learned a valuable lesson. This is what happens when people are completely oblivious to the world around them. You can not relax. Ever. You have to be on guard at all times. Like the idiot parents a few weeks ago who let their child play int heir front yard unmonitored and the child got kidnapped, don't be stupid. This is a dangerous world. And people are always on the prowl. You can't just walk away from something of value and act like all is ok. Because at all times there is someone watching and waiting to catch you. This is a $70K vehicle. Yea sure, you might have got a good deal. But it is still a $70K vehicle. So treat it like such. Act as if you have $70K in the passenger seat. I wouldn't trust my mother with this car, lol. Much less a complete stranger. This is not some okey dokey world where you can do this stuff. In fact, I bet they beat the shit out of his car just because he was completely unaware of what was going on. Look at it like this, would you trust Jason Mamoa with your drunk half naked GF in a hotel room? I would trust a shop worker even less than that. In fact, I would rather hand them my drunken half naked GF for 3 hours than trust them with my ZL1 unsupervised for even 5 minutes. Shit, do what you want to my GF. But you ain't touchin my ZL1 while I'm alive!!

[Smokin19]

Reading thru this thread makes me appreciate why doing mods is not for me on this Camaro. Not against others doing what they want to mod, just not for me, my modding days are over.

[SJFGTO]

Surprised the dealer (GM) said “not my problem???” Really? Except for where it happened there is zero evidence of liability. There is circumstantial evidence because of where it happened and the owner’s claim it had been running fine, which a dealer is free to disbelieve. Who wouldn’t claim that? You have a heavily modified vehicle which the dealer is going to believe, reasonably, has been driven hard. When that much money is at stake it is gonna take a whole lot more to convince the dealer to foot the bill. Not a surprise at all and IMHO not unreasonable to do so. The owner is gonna need eye witness testimony of a tech error or expert testimony, following a tear down, establishing a nexus between a dealership error and the engine damage.

[FoundNemo]

Originally Posted by Smokin19

Reading thru this thread makes me appreciate why doing mods is not for me on this Camaro. Not against others doing what they want to mod, just not for me, my modding days are over.

Plenty of go-fast warranty safe mods. Otherwise, I'm with you. No modding if im not willing to foot the bill for the repairs. The LT4 crate engine is about $15k alone, pricey.

[L78toLT1]

The finger pointing blame game should be put on hold pending results of an autopsy on the motor. Things should be pretty clear once it is disassembled and inspected. If I had to speculate, I’d guess that the shop put coolant in the crankcase by mistake. This would wipe out the rod & main bearings in short order and would certainly result in a knock. The valve train would also get noisy when the lifters filled with coolant. Damn near every moving part in the motor would start to make noise. When the techs figured out what they did, they probably shut it down, drained out the coolant and replaced the oil and filter, hoping against hope that the noise may have been confined to the valve train and would go away once the coolant was purged. They may have even drained and filled several times to get all the coolant out, which could explain why the entire process took so long. The OP seems to have appeared on the scene about the time the techs figured out they were screwed and were strategizing on how to at least partially mitigate the fallout from their mistake.
If a teardown of the engine reveals that it truly did hydro lock, I don’t see how the techs could have caused it. Pouring the crankcase full of coolant wouldn’t do it, it would wipe out the motor, but would not hydro lock it, the coolant would have to be ingested thru the intake tract which just couldn’t happen in any conceivable scenario.
This is all obviously conjecture at this point; however, it is obvious that the dealer is not being totally above board. They should have notified the OP immediately after the failure, regardless of what happened. I would not trust them to do the teardown unsupervised. It would be prudent to have a mechanic or even a non-GM engineer supervise the teardown. This situation is undoubtedly exacerbated by the mods. A virtually unlimited number of theoretical scenarios related to the mods could be used to explain away anything that is discovered in the teardown. I hope for the OP’s sake that the dealer will play fair. If they’re committed to dodging responsibility, unfortunately they will likely prevail e.g. even if every one of the bearings is wiped, the dealer can claim the car was knocking when it came in…how will the OP prove otherwise?

[slimjim2525]

Blaqhole, your assertions are beyond ridiculous. The OP was in the building the entire time. They are gonna cite liability crap that you cant be in the shop with the car. Go dooms day prep somewhere else.

[L78toLT1]

Just re-read the original post: if the op was told verbatim that "all the coolant shot out of the exhaust " then the dealer is lying. Nothing would cause that. A small amount of coolant, yes. All or even a significant volume of coolant? No way

[MrChrisLS3]

Originally Posted by ccw

Yes, I'm beyond frustrated with this dealer. So far, they aren't stepping up. Courthouses are still closed here until after Memorial Day Weekend. If I don't have this resolved by then this will be handled like any other client case in my office. I'm really hoping we can work out some sort of fair resolution prior to that.

The dealership has already responded. They are not going to reverse that position unless you can supply some burden of proof, which will be difficult without an independent inspection. That inspection may only be possible under court order, I'm guessing. I would say file your case asap before the dealer has time to cover their tracks, if there are any to cover or they haven't already.

Once you have access to evidence, they can always settle. But get the case in motion. They are not going to reverse their position until required under pressure to do so.

[pauly1119]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Not for nothin, I hope OP learned a valuable lesson. This is what happens when people are completely oblivious to the world around them. You can not relax. Ever. You have to be on guard at all times. Like the idiot parents a few weeks ago who let their child play int heir front yard unmonitored and the child got kidnapped, don't be stupid. This is a dangerous world. And people are always on the prowl. You can't just walk away from something of value and act like all is ok. Because at all times there is someone watching and waiting to catch you. This is a $70K vehicle. Yea sure, you might have got a good deal. But it is still a $70K vehicle. So treat it like such. Act as if you have $70K in the passenger seat. I wouldn't trust my mother with this car, lol. Much less a complete stranger. This is not some okey dokey world where you can do this stuff. In fact, I bet they beat the shit out of his car just because he was completely unaware of what was going on. Look at it like this, would you trust Jason Mamoa with your drunk half naked GF in a hotel room? I would trust a shop worker even less than that. In fact, I would rather hand them my drunken half naked GF for 3 hours than trust them with my ZL1 unsupervised for even 5 minutes. Shit, do what you want to my GF. But you ain't touchin my ZL1 while I'm alive!!

[LT4Greg]

Something is fishy about the situation but I really don’t believe that they would hire dumbasses that had no knowledge or experience to be techs at the dealership. The Op is a lawyer which he stated in his thread and knows what course of action he can take against the dealership. His ZLE was heavily modded and it clearly states in the owners manual the warranty will be void if engine or tuning modifications are done to the car. It couldn’t be any clearer than that. I do though understand his point that the dealership is responsible for what happens to his car in their possession and wish him luck in getting it repaired.

[mosaic6]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

No responsible owner would ever entrust a complete strange with a car on this level. Hell, I wouldn't even trust them with a SS. You don't pass anyone your keys and walk away and be completely oblivious to what is happening to your car.

No doubt! Bueller? Bueller? Remember what he did on his day off?

At the dealership, all the paperwork was signed and wrapped up, dealer prep finished and the temporary tags installed, registration and insurance in my name, the car is now legally mine, the keys are in my hand. I was itching to drive away with the new ZL1 and leave the dealership in my rearview mirror.

The salesperson said all that remains is for *them* to drive *my* new car to the gas station and top off the tank. All I need to do is give them the keys and they'll be right back, just wait here in the showroom.

I told them I'd really love to get that free gas, but nobody other than me will be driving the car from now on.