DRIVE: GT500 vs. ZL1 (by Chris Harris)

[Mr. Wyndham]

So he liked the GT500 more because it was worse?

Strangely enough....I can understand that. That was fun to watch.

Over-power a car enough and becomes loads of fun. And that's precisely what Ford did...they didn't waste time or money on handling or refinement, because Mustang never excelled in those areas - it was just good. They had silver bullet of an engine on their workbench and they threw everything at it.

After all I've read of this new GT500....I can more truly appreciate all of what team Camaro put into the ZL1...it's the herald of the next-generation of muscle/pony cars. Power + Handling + Refinement & Style. On the other hand, the GT500 is the last of the old school, I think....and boy, is it sending them out with a bang!

Originally Posted by Deki

Add the IRS, MRC, and wider tires to the GT500 and it's no contest lol come on man...

Ah, but they can't, now can they?

In the world of bench-racing, I think 2cnd chance's theory is more plausible.

[ParisTNDude]

Nothing new in this review. Seems like the price was his most appreciated aspect of these cars. Again, the Camaro was victorious on the road course and the Mustang the power champ. These are great times for American muscle car fans.

[eolson]

If you're talking about modding, then the GT500 needs brake ducting, X brace in back seat and a Watts link. Total cost maybe $1200. Add wider tires another $1250

That $1200 alone will get you better G's in corners than the ZL1, no lateral lift in bumps and rough pavement, and no brake fade.

The ZL1 is going to need a lot more than $1200 to out do a slightly modded GT500, let alone the stock one. So let's get real about modding costs between the cars, shall we.

If you really thing that SVT really went all the way to have the GT500 more compliant in the corners, you obviously have never driven a fast Mustang with an X brace solving the Monocoque rear inner wheel lift fixed axel issue, a watts link greatly reducing the live axel issues, as well as the Max width tires that can fit the car.

These solutions are already waiting for the GT500 right now from Pedders and Whiteline as well as Nitto Tires.

The GT500 if driven correctly, as with C&R, R&T and MT did keep up with the ZL1 on road courses and cornering. Look at the cone tests and road course times.

Clearly SVT needs to go with IRS next generation and weight off the front with wider tires and brake ducting. No brainer. The ZL1 has reached it's technology zenith already, all of us Mustang owners know that Ford and SVT are still not really solving the suspension/chassis and break issues or potential of the Mustang car line. We're still waiting. Erik

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by eolson

If you're talking about modding, then the GT500 needs brake ducting, X brace in back seat and a Watts link. Total cost maybe $1200. Add wider tires another $1250

That $1200 alone will get you better G's in corners than the ZL1, no lateral lift in bumps and rough pavement, and no brake fade.

The ZL1 is going to need a lot more than $1200 to out do a slightly modded GT500, let alone the stock one. So let's get real about modding costs between the cars, shall we.

If you really thing that SVT really went all the way to have the GT500 more compliant in the corners, you obviously have never driven a fast Mustang with an X brace solving the Monocoque rear inner wheel lift fixed axel issue, a watts link greatly reducing the live axel issues, as well as the Max width tires that can fit the car.

These solutions are already waiting for the GT500 right now from Pedders and Whiteline as well as Nitto Tires.

The GT500 if driven correctly, as with C&R, R&T and MT did keep up with the ZL1 on road courses and cornering. Look at the cone tests and road course times.

Clearly SVT needs to go with IRS next generation and weight off the front with wider tires and brake ducting. No brainer. The ZL1 has reached it's technology zenith already, all of us Mustang owners know that Ford and SVT are still not really solving the suspension/chassis and break issues or potential of the Mustang car line. We're still waiting. Erik

Interesting thoughts....I'll politely disagree. The stiffness and strength of the 5th gen Camaro chassis affords the ZL1 far more un-tapped potential than the current Mustang will ever have.

The downside to all that strength is that there was not enough focus on weight reduction during development (And I'm talking waaaay back when Holden first conceived of the Zeta platform, not when Chevy had to use it for the Camaro in 2007...)....so effectively, Chevy is battling a different battle than Ford...it makes it hard to compare Apples to Oranges.

[Deki]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

Ah, but they can't, now can they?

In the world of bench-racing, I think 2cnd chance's theory is more plausible.

No but you're $4300 away from a full Pedders set up that will pull 1.2G's at the track and that will more than walk away from the ZL1 in every respect. The point I was trying to make, you can't compare modified cars. It's a useless argument. Stock for stock, they are neck and neck. MT observed brake fade, no other publication did. I think a few things attributed to that....1. Insufficient cooling because Ford wanted to claim the 200mph+ top speed 2. RP took the car to it's ragged edge and exploited the weakness of the insufficient cooling of the brakes and 3, which is just a speculation, they did not use the proper fluid as stated in the manual to prevent the over heating of the fluid. We have no evidence to show us whether the fade was caused by the pads, rotors or fluid. From the Raven footage at Sebring and the other track which I'm too lazy to think of or look up, their modified GT500 with tune and DOT4 fluid, on stock rotors, pads, and tires, never had an issue with brake fade, which leads me to believe it was the fluid in the MT that did the car in. 15" 6 piston Brembos up front are no joke, and have been shown to slow the GT500 from 60 and 70mph faster than the ZL1. Just my 2 cents.

[MrDew]

Originally Posted by Deki

No but you're $4300 away from a full Pedders set up that will pull 1.2G's at the track and that will more than walk away from the ZL1 in every respect. The point I was trying to make, you can't compare modified cars. It's a useless argument. Stock for stock, they are neck and neck. MT observed brake fade, no other publication did. I think a few things attributed to that....1. Insufficient cooling because Ford wanted to claim the 200mph+ top speed 2. RP took the car to it's ragged edge and exploited the weakness of the insufficient cooling of the brakes and 3, which is just a speculation, they did not use the proper fluid as stated in the manual to prevent the over heating of the fluid. We have no evidence to show us whether the fade was caused by the pads, rotors or fluid. From the Raven footage at Sebring and the other track which I'm too lazy to think of or look up, their modified GT500 with tune and DOT4 fluid, on stock rotors, pads, and tires, never had an issue with brake fade, which leads me to believe it was the fluid in the MT that did the car in. 15" 6 piston Brembos up front are no joke, and have been shown to slow the GT500 from 60 and 70mph faster than the ZL1. Just my 2 cents.

Yes, you can add a pedders kit to the gt500 but that will make the car one dimensional ( track car "only"). Whereas the camaro with more power will still be that well rounded package!

I think that's what most people appreciate about the MRC and the camaro in general...
(But if going fast without mercy for your back is your thing, a pedderized gt500 might just do the trick...)

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Deki

Add the IRS, MRC, and wider tires to the GT500 and it's no contest lol come on man...

Much Much Much Much simpler to add a few ponies than to reengineer a chassis and suspension.

[69NMYSS]

Originally Posted by Deki

No but you're $4300 away from a full Pedders set up that will pull 1.2G's at the track and that will more than walk away from the ZL1 in every respect. The point I was trying to make, you can't compare modified cars. It's a useless argument. Stock for stock, they are neck and neck. MT observed brake fade, no other publication did. I think a few things attributed to that....1. Insufficient cooling because Ford wanted to claim the 200mph+ top speed 2. RP took the car to it's ragged edge and exploited the weakness of the insufficient cooling of the brakes and 3, which is just a speculation, they did not use the proper fluid as stated in the manual to prevent the over heating of the fluid. We have no evidence to show us whether the fade was caused by the pads, rotors or fluid. From the Raven footage at Sebring and the other track which I'm too lazy to think of or look up, their modified GT500 with tune and DOT4 fluid, on stock rotors, pads, and tires, never had an issue with brake fade, which leads me to believe it was the fluid in the MT that did the car in. 15" 6 piston Brembos up front are no joke, and have been shown to slow the GT500 from 60 and 70mph faster than the ZL1. Just my 2 cents.

The problem is, one of them (gt500) cost over $5k more comparably equipped so it's hard to fairly compare those as well, unless you exclude the PP and TP and keep price equal. But then the GT500 would be a trick pony and get blown away at the track. Bottom line, nobody will ever be happy with the reviews and will always have an excuse to support one or the other. Despite the fact all 4 mags crowned the ZL1 as the better vehicle, Ford fans will claim conspiracy or biased reviews. And despite the fact the GT500 has kept up on the course with the ZL1, Chevy fans will claim that's only because the GT500 makes up for bad handling with acceleration and/or cost $5k more. In the end, anyone who actually owns either one of the badass machines will be smiling every time they get behind the wheel. Both have proven themselves to be incredible autos for an incredible value. I can honestly say I am impressed with the GT500, how could you not be? It is a force to be reckoned with at the strip and the track. But there always has to be a winner, and we now know which one that is

[Bob Cosby]

Originally Posted by 69NMYSS

The problem is, one of them (gt500) cost over $5k more comparably equipped so it's hard to fairly compare those as well, unless you exclude the PP and TP and keep price equal. But then the GT500 would be a trick pony and get blown away at the track.

That being the case, one could call a ZL1 a one-trick pony because it will get blown away at the track....drag strip track....by a base GT500. For less money.

Just playing devils advocate....what's good for the goose.... :seesaw:

Bottom line, nobody will ever be happy with the reviews and will always have an excuse to support one or the other. Despite the fact all 4 mags crowned the ZL1 as the better vehicle, Ford fans will claim conspiracy or biased reviews. And despite the fact the GT500 has kept up on the course with the ZL1, Chevy fans will claim that's only because the GT500 makes up for bad handling with acceleration and/or cost $5k more. In the end, anyone who actually owns either one of the badass machines will be smiling every time they get behind the wheel. Both have proven themselves to be incredible autos for an incredible value.

I can honestly say I am impressed with the GT500, how could you not be? It is a force to be reckoned with at the strip and the track. But there always has to be a winner, and we now know which one that is

Eh, my winner might not be the same as yours....but that's ok, and I really don't care who C&D or R&T or MT or even BB&T thinks is the best one.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

So he liked the GT500 more because it was worse?

Strangely enough....I can understand that. That was fun to watch.

Over-power a car enough and becomes loads of fun. And that's precisely what Ford did...they didn't waste time or money on handling or refinement, because Mustang never excelled in those areas - it was just good. They had silver bullet of an engine on their workbench and they threw everything at it.

After all I've read of this new GT500....I can more truly appreciate all of what team Camaro put into the ZL1...it's the herald of the next-generation of muscle/pony cars. Power + Handling + Refinement & Style. On the other hand, the GT500 is the last of the old school, I think....and boy, is it sending them out with a bang!



Ah, but they can't, now can they?

In the world of bench-racing, I think 2cnd chance's theory is more plausible.

Great post!
And thanks for getting my point.

[c4maroboy]

more of the same here..great data backing that the ZL1 is simply awesome

[Snakedriver]

So how much Horsepower would the ZL1 have to leave the factory with stock in order for it to be as fast as the 13 GT500 in straight line performance?

[camaro_25]

So the mustang is apperantly more fun to drive? WHO CARES!! THE ZL1 HAD 2 SECONDS ON IT!
-winning

[stlrammer]

Chris Harris would make a good trunk monkey. Actually very entertaining.