[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Gen5_1Le

I can't see how 500 cars can be called too many, although i know from the start it was never in the plans to sell in high numbers . But either way they sat and didn't sell . In two years there won't be any 2018 zl1 1le sitting on dealer lots at 30 % or more off of sticker . Right now there are so many used Z28s available most don't have over 5k miles and the selling price is dropping like a brick ,thats not a good thing.

The Z/28 was the first high dollar Camaro and it didn't come loaded. The ZL1 1LE comes with all the gadgets, which is what most people care about anyways. People think stuff means its worth the money.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The Z/28 was the first high dollar Camaro and it didn't come loaded. The ZL1 1LE comes with all the gadgets, which is what most people care about anyways. People think stuff means its worth the money.

Exactly. Even though the Z/28 was purpose built, I don't think the majority of people were exited about buying a 75K car that didn't have any of those gadgets.

Which is why I think Ford was smart with the packaging of the 350R. You could get it stripped if you wanted, or you could get it with the gadgets if you wanted.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The reason the Z/28 sat is because they built too many. Why do you think they are only building 750 ZL1 1LEs a year?

Originally Posted by shaffe

Exactly. Even though the Z/28 was purpose built, I don't think the majority of people were exited about buying a 75K car that didn't have any of those gadgets.

Which is why I think Ford was smart with the packaging of the 350R. You could get it stripped if you wanted, or you could get it with the gadgets if you wanted.

I think it was a combination of both. They built too many in 2015 and the stripped down, old gen5 interior was a hard sell at that price. ...and with the GT350 arriving with a better interior and option.

Comparing Z/28 to GT350R production number the R won't match the Z/28 even after the 2017 totals are known.

Z/28
2014 - 515
2015 – 1,292

GT350R
2015 – 37
2016 - 526

Offering a Z/28 that can be optioned up to full track would find the most buyer. Like the GS with Z07 or the GT350 in either TP or R

[Bhobbs]

I think they should do it like the 1LE. A 1SS with some more stuff.

[Supercup]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I
Z/28
2014 - 515
2015 – 1,292

GT350R
2015 – 37
2016 - 526

To many Z/28's were built in 2015, as stated by hotlap - not enough track guys to buy them and speculators got burned so they stepped off quickly after 2014 hype. Z/28 is a track car, that can go on the street, but end of a platform and limited creature comforts and sub par interior finish did not bode well for a $75k car.

R shows you can build a street car for the track that is a nice street car as well. 2015/16 R was better car than the Z, nicer interior, cost less and had massive following, both track and street. Single handedly killed the Z sales.

ZL1 1LE is trying to follow that model, leaving all the creature comforts in place, but they missed it on the suspension being track focused only. So not really the right car for the track guys or the street guys - only serves the track/street guys - very small market segment. It did serve to re-establish bragging rights back over the R. So long as they only build to orders, it will sell in limited numbers to those who want a track car with street comforts. So don't expect to see the Z mistake again.

Long term the R, Z/28 & ZL1 1LE are limited build cars with varying degrees of appeal. I love my Z and would love an R as well. The ZL1 1LE is too hard core for the street and has a bunch of stuff you don't want for track, so I don't see one in my future.

Official Z/28 – Final Build Count:
2014 69 CTF & 440 Production - total 509
2016 4 CTF & 1,288 Production - total 1,292
Total Production 1,801

CTF = Captured Test Fleet GM – auto show cars, press cars, employee cars – some were later offered to market for sale.

CTF cars start final Vin numbers with 69 where production cars start 70.

All great cars for the right buyer!

If there is a next Z/28 - it needs to be NA and needs to be lighter weight with ZL1 1LE aero, suspension and brakes - track focused - no creature comforts, target weight of 3,500 lbs and maybe a limited run of the LS7 with another 50 hp or a bumped up version of the SS motor?

At this point hard to see why GM would add it - they are pretty much covered with what they offer now.

[Bhobbs]

The same reason they built the last one, as an engineering exercise.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Supercup

To many Z/28's were built in 2015, as stated by hotlap - not enough track guys to buy them and speculators got burned so they stepped off quickly after 2014 hype. Z/28 is a track car, that can go on the street, but end of a platform and limited creature comforts and sub par interior finish did not bode well for a $75k car.

R shows you can build a street car for the track that is a nice street car as well. 2015/16 R was better car than the Z, nicer interior, cost less and had massive following, both track and street. Single handedly killed the Z sales.

ZL1 1LE is trying to follow that model, leaving all the creature comforts in place, but they missed it on the suspension being track focused only. So not really the right car for the track guys or the street guys - only serves the track/street guys - very small market segment. It did serve to re-establish bragging rights back over the R. So long as they only build to orders, it will sell in limited numbers to those who want a track car with street comforts. So don't expect to see the Z mistake again.

Long term the R, Z/28 & ZL1 1LE are limited build cars with varying degrees of appeal. I love my Z and would love an R as well. The ZL1 1LE is too hard core for the street and has a bunch of stuff you don't want for track, so I don't see one in my future.

Official Z/28 – Final Build Count:
2014 69 CTF & 440 Production - total 509
2016 4 CTF & 1,288 Production - total 1,292
Total Production 1,801

CTF = Captured Test Fleet GM – auto show cars, press cars, employee cars – some were later offered to market for sale.

CTF cars start final Vin numbers with 69 where production cars start 70.

All great cars for the right buyer!

If there is a next Z/28 - it needs to be NA and needs to be lighter weight with ZL1 1LE aero, suspension and brakes - track focused - no creature comforts, target weight of 3,500 lbs and maybe a limited run of the LS7 with another 50 hp or a bumped up version of the SS motor?

At this point hard to see why GM would add it - they are pretty much covered with what they offer now.

That would be the hardest part IMO, The Grand Sport Vette weighs 3428. Getting the Camaro to weigh roughly the same as A Corvette is going to be one expensive process. Yeah they could probably do it, but would customers be willing to pay for it?

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by shaffe

That would be the hardest part IMO, The Grand Sport Vette weighs 3428. Getting the Camaro to weigh roughly the same as A Corvette is going to be one expensive process. Yeah they could probably do it, but would customers be willing to pay for it?

No.

As much as people say horsepower isn't that important, they would complain it doesn't have as much power as the ZL1 1LE.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

No.

As much as people say horsepower isn't that important, they would complain it doesn't have as much power as the ZL1 1LE.

LOL for as much as people care about the heritage the original Z/28 never had the most horsepower either.

I still say a SS1LE with ZL1 1LE aero and a hot LT1 ala LS1 to LS6 is the perfect formula for Z/28. Top handling N/A Camaro.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by shaffe

LOL for as much as people care about the heritage the original Z/28 never had the most horsepower either.

I still say a SS1LE with ZL1 1LE aero and a hot LT1 ala LS1 to LS6 is the perfect formula for Z/28. Top handling N/A Camaro.

That would be a damn good car.

[travislambert]

Originally Posted by shaffe

...
I still say a SS1LE with ZL1 1LE aero and a hot LT1 ala LS1 to LS6 is the perfect formula for Z/28. Top handling N/A Camaro.

I'd add ZL1 1LE suspension and lightweight glass. Also, throw in options for carbon ceramic brakes (saves about 60 lbs), carbon fiber wheels (saves another 40 lbs+), competition seats with passthroughs for a harness, and a harness bar.

[doc7000]

Originally Posted by travislambert

I'd add ZL1 1LE suspension and lightweight glass. Also, throw in options for carbon ceramic brakes (saves about 60 lbs), carbon fiber wheels (saves another 40 lbs+), competition seats with passthroughs for a harness, and a harness bar.

I do think that if a Z/28 is produced it will essentially be the ss 1LE but with ZL1 1LE aero, suspension, stripped interior, with maybe CC brakes and carbon fiber wheels (standard or optional). If they did that then they would have a 3,600 pound (3,590 pound range if we are lucky) curb weight, then the issue just comes down to engine.

They have a LT1 crate motor with 535BHP which would be more then enough to get the job done.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by travislambert

I'd add ZL1 1LE suspension and lightweight glass. Also, throw in options for carbon ceramic brakes (saves about 60 lbs), carbon fiber wheels (saves another 40 lbs+), competition seats with passthroughs for a harness, and a harness bar.

Originally Posted by doc7000

I do think that if a Z/28 is produced it will essentially be the ss 1LE but with ZL1 1LE aero, suspension, stripped interior, with maybe CC brakes and carbon fiber wheels (standard or optional). If they did that then they would have a 3,600 pound (3,590 pound range if we are lucky) curb weight, then the issue just comes down to engine.

They have a LT1 crate motor with 535BHP which would be more then enough to get the job done.

Only problem I see with the CC brakes and CF wheels and some of that lightweight stuff that it would put the car in an odd price slot. I figured if the car was in the 55-63 range it would be perfect. If it gets higher than the ZL1 or approaches ZL1 1LE territory it would defeat the purpose

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Only problem I see with the CC brakes and CF wheels and some of that lightweight stuff that it would put the car in an odd price slot. I figured if the car was in the 55-63 range it would be perfect. If it gets higher than the ZL1 or approaches ZL1 1LE territory it would defeat the purpose

Yeah, leave it at that price range. I may be able to get one this time haha.