5.0 VS US

[GossipSquirrelJelena]

Originally Posted by acammer

The only apples to apples comparison would be stock for stock. Once you start introducing modifications (ie. "across all forms" which I don't see anywhere in your previous posts), you've got too many variables.

Stock for stock, the LS3 outperforms the L99 in the quarter mile. That was the original discussion here - see posts #20, #24 and #25. I reviewed the data on the forum as you suggested, and it supports the fact that the stock LS3 outperforms the L99 in both ET and trap speed. There was not much of a difference in the 60'.

No where has anyone disagreed that the auto isn't the preferred way to go at the dragstrip, especially once you start to add power and traction. Obviously if you've spent any amount of time at a drag strip, you know the 60' is everything, and the automatic has an advantage there in the case of easy, repeatable launches.

But that's not discussion at hand. Bayarea408 posited (post #20) that the auto 5.0 > 5.0M6/LS3 > L99 all in stock form. rontammy0 disagreed (post #24). gmcvt challenged that (post #25). So we reviewed the stock for stock data and supported Bayarea408's conclusion.

And stock vs stock. I'd beat everyone taking a stance in this discussion. In my 5.0. Including rontammy. I'm going to bow out of this one. I feel like a 50 year old bracket racer. Who owns an actual race car will never get thru to guys that have never been to the track. Or that posts 12.7s with mods. I mean your making my point for me. You basically have the same mods as me and my best time is over a second faster than what your posting in your sig. I get the point your trying to make. In a best case scenario. Vs my real world arguement. But remember when you show up at the track in your car. It wont be a best case scenario.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

And stock vs stock. I'd beat everyone taking a stance in this discussion. In my 5.0. Including rontammy. I'm going to bow out of this one. I feel like a 50 year old bracket racer. Who owns an actual race car will never get thru to guys that have never been to the track. Or that posts 12.7s with mods.

You seem to be taking this really personally. It's just a discussion, you seem to think is about winning, or having a faster car.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get through to me - a stock LS3 vs a stock L99 is a drivers race, and if the LS3 guy can drive, he'll come out ahead. Wasn't that the original discussion?

I've been drag racing near stock street cars, mostly on street tires, for over 15 years. I don't have the privilege of owning a race car. Sorry if I'm somehow not measuring up to some standard that you seem to have for entering a discussion with you. If you need to see a stack of slips I can post those up any time. I don't get out every weekend, more like 3-4x annually.

If my slow car and proving you wrong with the facts that you suggested we look at is too much for you then you're probably right, you should bow out.

[GossipSquirrelJelena]

Originally Posted by acammer

You seem to be taking this really personally. It's just a discussion, you seem to think is about winning, or having a faster car.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get through to me - a stock LS3 vs a stock L99 is a drivers race, and if the LS3 guy can drive, he'll come out ahead. Wasn't that the original discussion?

I've been drag racing near stock street cars, mostly on street tires, for over 15 years. I don't have the privilege of owning a race car. Sorry if I'm somehow not measuring up to some standard that you seem to have for entering a discussion with you. If you need to see a stack of slips I can post those up any time. I don't get out every weekend, more like 3-4x annually.

If my slow car and proving you wrong with the facts that you suggested we look at is too much for you then you're probably right, you should bow out.

Everything about racing is measuring up to a standard and about winning. Nobody willingly sets out to lose or go slow! This is the interwebs. I taken nothing personally on line. So I'm sorry if something I said offended you. But the fact remains. The title of this thread 5.0. VS US. Using you as an example for my argument that an automatic will win 95% of the time. 12.7 with mods represents the 95% of racers. I come across on grudge night that don't stand a chance. To my 12.6 stock time in summer heat in a 5.0 automatic. If you want to believe that simply owning an LS3 is going to get the job done. Your not being honest with yourself. Again most of the people that show up on Friday night or argue on forums will post a 12.7 with mods. NOT 12.7 STOCK. The fastest posted time in a 5.0 on mustang6g is almost 3/10th faster than any LS3 posted time on this forums fast list! Using your best case scenario logic. The LS3 still loses. Stock VS stock. So to end this. If I'm driving. I'm choosing the 5.0 automatic as my weapon of choice. Followed by the L99 and finally the LS3. I'm at the track once a week. I live this stuff. You keep trying to muttle my words. I never said an LS3 cant win a drag race. But the majority of time . It wont! In perfect conditions it is a drivers race. Now how often do the stars align for these perfect conditions??? That's the point I've been trying to make that you don't want to hear! You said you'd be willing to post up slips. Wanna bet before you post. That yours will be slower than either my slips or rontammys slip? we're both automatic.....LS3 should have no problem with either L99 cars.

[2010reddevil]

I will chip in a bit as well. If you're driving an auto car, the very first mod you should do is a good converter upgrade. That right there, is the biggest handicap an auto has. Once that has been eliminated, both L99 and 5.0L are quite capable of running 11s with no other mods besides traction related. The 5.0L pulls so hard up top because of its high revving nature. I will say that from a roll or dig, I've never lost to a similar modded auto car in my Camaro. I ran a cammed FBO G8GT as well as a similarly modded L99 Camaro. Both got me out of the hole by about a car or two, but I ran them both down by the time I grabbed the top of 2nd and pulled on the big end. I also raced a highly modded 5.0L that came to visit from the valley. Had the SCJ intake manifold, Lund tune, converter, gears, FBO and claimed to be a 11.2 car. He couldn't beat me either. We went from a 20 or 30 roll and each and every time, I just ever so slightly pulled by a door. His front bumper was at the rear of my door. If I could have gotten me a 1.8 or better short time, my car would have been an 11 sec car. But, track times don't lie and I had a hell of a time finding the sweet spot with shitty track prep because of people oiling the track down.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

Everything about racing is measuring up to a standard and about winning. Nobody willingly sets out to lose or go slow! This is the interwebs. I taken nothing personally on line. So I'm sorry if something I said offended you. But the fact remains. The title of this thread 5.0. VS US. Using you as an example for my argument that an automatic will win 95% of the time. 12.7 with mods represents the 95% of racers. I come across on grudge night that don't stand a chance. To my 12.6 stock time in summer heat in a 5.0 automatic. If you want to believe that simply owning an LS3 is going to get the job done. Your not being honest with yourself. Again most of the people that show up on Friday night or argue on forums will post a 12.7 with mods. NOT 12.7 STOCK. The fastest posted time in a 5.0 on mustang6g is almost 3/10th faster than any LS3 posted time on this forums fast list! Using your best case scenario logic. The LS3 still loses. Stock VS stock. So to end this. If I'm driving. I'm choosing the 5.0 automatic as my weapon of choice. Followed by the L99 and finally the LS3. I'm at the track once a week. I live this stuff. You keep trying to muttle my words. I never said an LS3 cant win a drag race. But the majority of time . It wont! You said you'd be willing to post up slips. Wanna bet before you post. That yours will be slower than either my slips or rontammys slip? we're both auto.....

I think we're closer to being in agreement than we are opposed. Maybe I'm nit-picking the details - but the fast stock for stock lists does show the LS3 with an advantage over the L99.

I think we're arguing different points. I thought the theory put forth was that the L99 was faster than the LS3, stock vs. stock. Based on the data, that's incorrect. I think you're saying that you can't take the driver out of the equation, and that in an average Joe vs average Joe situation the L99 has an advantage. I wouldn't disagree with that.

If you think I'm putting forth that an LS3 will take a 5.0, stock for stock, I'd say no to the 5.0 auto, and drivers race to M6. If you thought I meant an LS3 was going to handle a 5.0, definitely not. We have a Mustang on Mustang series regularly at our track and there are a ton of 5.0 cars. Pretty easy to run 11's with one of those on a good tire. Easier than getting a 5th gen SS into the 11's, that's for sure.

I would agree that our fast list, probably much like the Mustang list, represents the best of the best. Stock, most guys struggle to break into the 12's - those that do are usually at very well prepped tracks with extremely good DA's, and or are extremely good drivers - especially the manual guys.

I can show you the slips, but they all pretty much go 2.0x, 8.4@88, 12.7@113, that was last fall, this spring, and this summer in the real nasty heat 12.8's. I have about 20 passes in the car total - and countless more on the street, which is a totally different game. Hopefully I'll cook off a 12.5x hero pass in the late fall on a cool sunny day now that the 4.10's are in. Cam and DRs in the future... who knows.

This is what it looks like - you tell me what I'm doing wrong. This was first time out with the 4.10, sitting in the hot lanes idling for quite a while, and crappy air. I think I'm getting just about all I can out of these $108/ea Chinesium crap 275/40/20 Delinte Desert Storm D8's that were on the car when I bought it.

[acammer]

Originally Posted by 2010reddevil

I will chip in a bit as well. If you're driving an auto car, the very first mod you should do is a good converter upgrade. That right there, is the biggest handicap an auto has. Once that has been eliminated, both L99 and 5.0L are quite capable of running 11s with no other mods besides traction related. The 5.0L pulls so hard up top because of its high revving nature. I will say that from a roll or dig, I've never lost to a similar modded auto car in my Camaro. I ran a cammed FBO G8GT as well as a similarly modded L99 Camaro. Both got me out of the hole by about a car or two, but I ran them both down by the time I grabbed the top of 2nd and pulled on the big end. I also raced a highly modded 5.0L that came to visit from the valley. Had the SCJ intake manifold, Lund tune, converter, gears, FBO and claimed to be a 11.2 car. He couldn't beat me either. We went from a 20 or 30 roll and each and every time, I just ever so slightly pulled by a door. His front bumper was at the rear of my door. If I could have gotten me a 1.8 or better short time, my car would have been an 11 sec car. But, track times don't lie and I had a hell of a time finding the sweet spot with shitty track prep because of people oiling the track down.

Similar experience. I've made more than a few roll pulls against guys that 60' their way into the 11's, and I stand up just fine. I'd get hammered from a dig. Some day I'll put some good tires on this car and see what she can do with real traction.

[rontammy0]

Originally Posted by acammer

Similar experience. I've made more than a few roll pulls against guys that 60' their way into the 11's, and I stand up just fine. I'd get hammered from a dig. Some day I'll put some good tires on this car and see what she can do with real traction.

Still have to test the drag radials and stall upgrades. Next Sat night looks good. Im not that big a fan of roll racing ....but ive done it. Roll racing an auto isnt a strong point.

[Royal Tiger]

Originally Posted by rontammy0

Still have to test the drag radials and stall upgrades. Next Sat night looks good. Im not that big a fan of roll racing ....but ive done it. Roll racing an auto isnt a strong point.

I'm anxiously awaiting how your car does. I should have the headers/cats/tune done by Thanksgiving or there abouts on my car. After that I'm thinking suspension, with a supercharger being a few years off.

[rontammy0]

Originally Posted by Royal Tiger

I'm anxiously awaiting how your car does. I should have the headers/cats/tune done by Thanksgiving or there abouts on my car. After that I'm thinking suspension, with a supercharger being a few years off.

I know....ive been working most weekends all summer this year.....but im going to go to the track for sure.

[GossipSquirrelJelena]

Originally Posted by acammer

I think we're closer to being in agreement than we are opposed. Maybe I'm nit-picking the details - but the fast stock for stock lists does show the LS3 with an advantage over the L99.

I think we're arguing different points. I thought the theory put forth was that the L99 was faster than the LS3, stock vs. stock. Based on the data, that's incorrect. I think you're saying that you can't take the driver out of the equation, and that in an average Joe vs average Joe situation the L99 has an advantage. I wouldn't disagree with that.

If you think I'm putting forth that an LS3 will take a 5.0, stock for stock, I'd say no to the 5.0 auto, and drivers race to M6. If you thought I meant an LS3 was going to handle a 5.0, definitely not. We have a Mustang on Mustang series regularly at our track and there are a ton of 5.0 cars. Pretty easy to run 11's with one of those on a good tire. Easier than getting a 5th gen SS into the 11's, that's for sure.

I would agree that our fast list, probably much like the Mustang list, represents the best of the best. Stock, most guys struggle to break into the 12's - those that do are usually at very well prepped tracks with extremely good DA's, and or are extremely good drivers - especially the manual guys.

I can show you the slips, but they all pretty much go 2.0x, 8.4@88, 12.7@113, that was last fall, this spring, and this summer in the real nasty heat 12.8's. I have about 20 passes in the car total - and countless more on the street, which is a totally different game. Hopefully I'll cook off a 12.5x hero pass in the late fall on a cool sunny day now that the 4.10's are in. Cam and DRs in the future... who knows.

This is what it looks like - you tell me what I'm doing wrong. This was first time out with the 4.10, sitting in the hot lanes idling for quite a while, and crappy air. I think I'm getting just about all I can out of these $108/ea Chinesium crap 275/40/20 Delinte Desert Storm D8's that were on the car when I bought it.

Two bits of advice you might try. One might help. One will surely help. Try launching the car at 3000-3500 RPMs. But instead of going right to the floor. Try releasing the clutch and applying the throttle in a controlled motion. Count. 1000-1, 100-2 in your head as your working the peddles. Your likely spinning on launch in the video. Second. Trash the Chinese street tires. A set of nittos or MTs will do wonders for your sixty. Good luck next time out.

[rontammy0]

Gossip ...2010reddeviland prostock john are the only 3 guys i listen to regarding drag racing.

[Royal Tiger]

Yeah I hope to meet GSJ one day. I'd love to run at my old stomping grounds; Atco.

[2010reddevil]

Thanks Ron. I'm no pro by any means, but I definitely like to share emy first hand knowledge of what my experience has been. I have learned the hard way sometimes, and if I can help prevent someone else from following that hard pass, then I'm all for it. I gotta tell you, there's nothing in the world that is gonna prepare you for the feeling of dead hooking with a good tire. Talk about planting you in the seat! One of the reasons I miss my old 3v and I still may get another. One, the sound that 4.6L makes when uncorked and two, being an underdog but putting my money where it counted. I absolutely love the Coyote, and I eventually will get one. But I never got to see what my old 3v was capable of with the converter at the track. I know it wasn't as fast mph wise as my Camaro, but damn that thing could launch like a bat out of hell....... LOL.

[Royal Tiger]

Stock, the 4.6L HO in our Crown Victoria's were absolute dogs. The 3.7L Interceptor's are noticeably faster.