07-18-2023, 05:29 AM | #43 |
Drives: 2016 Camaro 2SS Hyper Blue Metallic Join Date: May 2020
Location: WI
Posts: 2,605
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07-18-2023, 06:32 AM | #44 |
Hail to the King baby!
Drives: '19 XT4 2.0T & '22 VW Atlas 2.0T Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 12,213
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It’s actually a lot less than that now. With an existing architecture 4 years would be long.
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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07-18-2023, 06:40 AM | #45 | |
Hail to the King baby!
Drives: '19 XT4 2.0T & '22 VW Atlas 2.0T Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 12,213
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Quote:
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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07-18-2023, 06:43 AM | #46 |
Drives: 19' ZL1 A10, w/pdr Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: S.W. ohio
Posts: 1,594
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Remember the song "Take this job and shove it" , that's how I feel about EV's.
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BTR Stg II cam w/ 38% fuel lobe, ARH 2" headers into 3" w/cats, Kong X port, Weapon X triple ht exchangers, NW 103, Rotofab big gulp, DSX lowside, TCM tune, BMR Lockout, Mustang dyno 720 rwhp, 634 rwtq on 93 pump.
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07-18-2023, 06:51 AM | #47 | |
Hail to the King baby!
Drives: '19 XT4 2.0T & '22 VW Atlas 2.0T Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 12,213
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Quote:
Range isn’t the issue. I doubt anyone would pay for 750 mile range. The improvement needed is charge time. And if you can get 300 miles of range (regardless of battery state of charge) in under 10 minutes that will be a big win. That and cost. Many years ago predictions showed we would have crossed the threshold of an EV costing less than an equivalent ICE. Hasn’t happened yet. This is also partly why GM is axing the Bolt and Bolt EUV. Old battery tech and it’s not on the Ultium architectures. Also note GM is quietly announcing several new ICE vehicles. New Traverse shown yesterday.
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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07-18-2023, 07:00 AM | #48 |
Drives: 2023/2SS/1LE/RadiantRed/A10 Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: Great Lakes
Posts: 334
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Thanks for sharing your AI click bait.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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2023/2SS/1LE/Radiant-Red/A10/Sunroof/Copper-Free-Breaks/Navigation —— Order History: 6/17/22-1100, 3/7/23-3000, TPW-4/3/23, 4/4/23-3800, 4/8/23-Delivered
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07-18-2023, 09:07 AM | #49 | |
Retired from GM
Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,484
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Quote:
TLDR: Most of the more popular EVs do not have a dealer network and therefore no reported inventory. They tend to have delivery times of 30 - 90 days depending on how popular they are. Hummer EV, Nissan Leaf, VW ID.4 and Ford Mach E aside, EVs aren't having much of a problem moving the metal. Mach E actually sells well, but Ford may have overbuilt inventory. It may also be worth noting that Mach E sales are the most impacted by recent Tesla price drops. Ford may have projected sales / build rate without the knowledge that Tesla would intentionally undercut Mach E pricing with Model Y price drop. Ford does not break out Lightning from total F-150 sales and inventory. At least not in this report. Vehicle / Avg. Daily Sales / Inventory Jun / Days Supply Jun / Days Supply May / Days Supply June '22 Challenger / 162 / 17,089 / 106 / 79 / 63 Camaro / 123 / 4,160 / 34 / 29 / 78 Mustang / 79 / 5,136 / 65 / 36 / 29 Corvette / 121 / 1,251 / 10 / 12 / 7 Cars Nissan Leaf / 23 / 2,296 / 101 / 68 / 2 Tesla Model 3 / 757 / No dealers therefore no inventory stats Polestar 2 / 43 / No dealers therefore no inventory stats Hyundai Ioniq 6 / 45 / 4,065 / 91 / 82 / wasn't available in June '22 Tesla Model S / 69 / No dealers therefore no inventory data Mercedes EQE / 21 / 1,530 / 72 / 45 / wasn't available in June '22 Mercedes EQS / 34 / 2,751 / 82 / 77 / 44 Audi eTron GT / 14 / 317 / 23 / 40 / 23 Toyota Mirai / 18 / 722 / 41 / 56 / 7 Trucks & Utes Bolt EUV / 128 / 2,679 / 21 / 35 / 88 Hyundai Ioniq 5 / 121 / 6,913 / 57 / 69 / 4 VW ID.4 / 109 / 10,569 / 97 / 76 / 22 Kia EV6 / 56 / 3,963 / 71 / 38 / 9 Nissan Ariya / 28 / 4,134 / 147 / 116 / wasn't available June '22 Tesla Model Y / 1,376 / No dealers therefore no inventory data Mercedes EQB / 25 / 1,174 / 47 / 35 / wasn't available June '22 Hyundai Nexo / 8 / 105 / 341 / 145 / 18 Ford Mach E / 158 / 13,092 / 83 / 112 / 89 Toyota bZ4X / 24 / 2,238 / 93 / 76 / 700 VinFast VF8 / 14 / No dealers therefore no inventory data Tesla Model X / 92 / No dealers therefore no inventory data BMW iX / 54 / 1,514 / 28 / 25 / 7 M-B EQS SUV / 39 / 2,945 / 76 / 65 Rivian R1S / 7 No dealers therefore no inventory data Audi eTron / 5 / 56 / 12 / 12 / 5 M-B EQE SUV / 0 / 2,831 Vehicle in launch mode, no sales data available yet Rivian R1T / 132 / No dealers therefore no inventory data Hummer EV / 1 / 588 / 510 / 592 / 46 Bolt EV / 78 / 2,830 / 36 / 28 / 17 BMW XM / 8 / 488 / 59 / 56 / Not available in June '22 Rivian EDV / 24 / No dealers therefore no inventory data Cadillac Lyriq / 18 / 2,155 / 118 / 70 / Not available June '22 Fire away!!
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2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack | Last edited by Martinjlm; 07-18-2023 at 10:01 AM. |
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07-18-2023, 09:09 AM | #50 |
Retired from GM
Drives: 2017 Camaro Fifty SS Convertible Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,484
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I'm just a d!ck. A d!ck with data.
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2017 CAMARO FIFTY SS CONVERTIBLE
A8 | MRC | NPP | Nav | HUD | GM Performance CAI | Tony Mamo LT1 V2 Ported TB | Kooks 1-7/8” LT Headers | FlexFuel Tune | Thinkware Q800 Pro front and rear dash cam | Charcoal Tint for Taillights and 3rd Brakelight | Orange and Carbon Fiber Bowties | 1LE Wheels in Gunmetal Gray | Carbon Fiber Interior Overlays | Novistretch bra and mirror covers | Tow hitch for bicycle rack | |
07-18-2023, 11:35 AM | #51 | |
Drives: 2000 WS6 Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: AZ
Posts: 497
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Where is the General on solid state tech, sodium based cells? Lithium/cobalt seems rare, expensive, extremely flammable under certain conditions, and environmentally devastating to the poorest countries on the planet under Chinese management. https://www.motortrend.com/news/sand...m-ion-battery/ "Ford, Mercedes, Toyota, and VW are all betting big on these room-temperature solid-state batteries. They're hard to scale up for production (Sandy likens it to "trying to glue potato chips together with two-way tape"), but they charge faster, are not flammable, boast 2-8 times the energy density, and typically require no toxic materials. All of which led Munro to declare: "When these batteries are in production, there will be no comparison between the current technology or anything petroleum based—[solid state] is the kiss of death for gasoline and diesel."" I respectfully disagree that gas and diesel will disappear so quickly, but lithium based tech sure would. I'd rather wait up to 10 years for solid state if half of this stuff is true. Maybe none it is... but, until I know what to believe, I'd rather stash money for retirement than hedge any bets. I used to get crap in my newsfeed 8-9 years ago printing solar cells on reeled spools for cheap, "It'll revolutionize our power grid!" Haven't seen that yet. Fusion reactors, anyone? When I see stuff like this... I can't rationalize buying a currently offered EV lithium/cobalt powered truck for $70k that will have deliver 10% less power over 10 years and then need a new battery that will effectively total it. And, as someone else pointed out, if this pie-in -the-sky solid state hype plays out, any Lithium based platform will become nearly worthless unless OEM's stick to a truly modular retro-fittable battery platform, which I'm guessing they won't, since longevity isn't necessarily in their interests, selling new trucks is. You're right, range isn't critical if charge times are fast enough and public access to charging stations is readily available. Neither is true enough for me right now. And, nobody has even uttered a thought about how gas taxes pay for road infrastructure. Start factoring that into your "cheap" KWH rates at some point, as well as the cost of the upgraded power generation/transmission infrastructure. This honeymoon with cheap power rates won't last forever. As excited as GM is about the Ultium platform, I remain a bit skeptical about building a subcompact crossover (since sedans are damned near illegal now) and a full size SUV or whatever on the same "skateboard" platform, just with different "frosting" on top. Will this narrow or widen the pricing between low and high tier vehicles? Logic says it should narrow the gap but we'll see... All the OEMs seem obsessed now with getting to a $50k average transaction price and producing fewer vehicles and mostly high margin upscale versions. Greed is what led us to whatever market conditions come next, for better or worse. I don't begrudge anyone making a profit, but don't be surprised when consumers eventually turn their backs to you. Too much uncertainty, not enough infrastructure, not enough range, slow charge times, prices too high... going to keep my 4 ICE V8 GM vehicles running as long as I can. Never thought I'd be another grumpy old man on a forum, but... here I am, I guess. |
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07-18-2023, 12:14 PM | #52 |
Drives: '17 Camaro 2SS & '99 Camaro Z28 Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,869
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Gasoline and Diesel are not going anywhere anytime soon. Both are a biproduct of oil refining. Oil is still necessary in alot more products than just fuel. Concrete and Roads depend on it, Plastics depend on it, heck even Wind Turbines and Lithium mining depends on it. Also the transition to EV's is not going to be a hasty one. It will take decades or longer before the average vehicle on the road is a EV.
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07-18-2023, 12:43 PM | #53 |
Drives: 5.0 Fox, Lancer Evos (8,X),23 ZLE? Join Date: May 2023
Location: West Coast
Posts: 159
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I'm holding out for solid state before going full BEV.
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07-18-2023, 01:15 PM | #54 | |
Banned
Drives: 2018 Camaro SS1 1LE Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,595
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Quote:
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07-18-2023, 03:56 PM | #55 | |
Drives: 2022 1LT RS 2.0t/6spd Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 234
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Quote:
These are the fundamental issues of why automotive evolution tends to be incremental and new technology has to be well developed before introduction. Electric Vehicles are not fully developed, do not have a stable supply chain and lack adequate support infrastructure. |
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07-18-2023, 03:59 PM | #56 |
Don't tread on me
Drives: 23 Sierra X31, Past 2017 Fifty 2SS Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 850
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Booooo
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