[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by genxer

I wrote fastbacks and should have included sedans. I was thinking a streamlined roof, real notchbacks are gone.

I have encountered a Telsa driver playing the expressway box in game, slurping on a fountain drink. After finally getting in front and slowing him way down, albeit with a clear left lane - he just would not go.

Psychographics? Please, delve into the wonkish geek stuff. We can handle it.

We have access to aggregated data that tells us basic demographics of vehicles bought and registered down to a zip code level. We can analyze the aggregated data to arrive at summary information on age, gender, ethnicity, household income, education level, other vehicles in the household et cetera. We also conduct surveys to get information from survey participants on what vehicles they discarded to get the new vehicle they acquired, what their second, third, fourth choices were when they made the purchase, what their reasons for purchase were, why they didn't purchase the second choice vehicle, and so on and so on. From drawing these analyses together, people with a whole lot more expertise in this area than me can put together a group of personas that can be used to define the “typical” buyer of a particular type of vehicle and how much they are willing to spend on it. That’s the elevator speech rendition.

[snizzle]

Originally Posted by snizzle

I believe "they" want us to rent these cars and associated features with a recurring revenue model. It's not a one and done purchase anymore. The tech industry is doing this as well which is now tied in via a software defined vehicle concept.

https://www.motor1.com/news/651791/h...rogram-ioniq5/

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by snizzle

https://www.motor1.com/news/651791/h...rogram-ioniq5/

I was just about to post this.

[Wyzz Kydd]

I encountered four of those Hyundai's on my way back from Alabama today. I'm not sure which model, but they had a 'Manufacturer' tag, which I've never seen before. No tail pipes and the front end screamed EV.

Unfortunately they were driving all in a row at a little under 70, in the passing lane of course. Jerkoffs. Took me a while to get a long enough stretch to get around them in the right lane, but eventually I did.

They didn't look 'bad' but I still wouldn't want one.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

I encountered four of those Hyundai's on my way back from Alabama today. I'm not sure which model, but they had a 'Manufacturer' tag, which I've never seen before. No tail pipes and the front end screamed EV.

Unfortunately they were driving all in a row at a little under 70, in the passing lane of course. Jerkoffs. Took me a while to get a long enough stretch to get around them in the right lane, but eventually I did.

They didn't look 'bad' but I still wouldn't want one.

We’re used to Manufacturer tags here in Michigan. When I was at GM it wasn’t unusual for me to be driving a vehicle with M Plates. Especially if it was a competitor benchmarking vehicle. I occasionally get press vehicles with Mplates now.

Hyundai has an assembly plant in Montgomery. No doubt that’s where they were coming from.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

We’re used to Manufacturer tags here in Michigan. When I was at GM it wasn’t unusual for me to be driving a vehicle with M Plates. Especially if it was a competitor benchmarking vehicle. I occasionally get press vehicles with Mplates now.

Hyundai has an assembly plant in Montgomery. No doubt that’s where they were coming from.

Probably so since I was on the Montgomery to Atlanta I85 run. Probably delivering them to some suckers, excuse me, customers in Atlanta.

Had a little fun with a Panamera S on the way down there. First time I've ever had a Porsche get froggy with me.

[docwra]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

I'm sure that's a topic with which you're intimately familiar.

Amazing. Im not the guy telling everyone EVs are shit when Ive not actually driven one

[Mr_Draco]

Originally Posted by snizzle

https://www.motor1.com/news/651791/h...rogram-ioniq5/

I don't see the issue here.

Their subscription service isn't an addition to the purchase price if you buy the vehicle. What you linked is just a lease program. Instead of the typical 3 year lease contract agreements, they are offering people the ability to lease them on a month to month basis instead.

[90503]

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco

I don't see the issue here.

Their subscription service isn't an addition to the purchase price if you buy the vehicle. What you linked is just a lease program. Instead of the typical 3 year lease contract agreements, they are offering people the ability to lease them on a month to month basis instead.

Good point. Or it could also be just good old fashioned rent-a-car...lol.

Just to add, I recall there is somewhat a school of thought/plan by the mfrs that they want or would prefer to keep the ownership of EVs to themselves. They want to determine the total use/reuse/recycle of the batteries and save themselves the hassle of dealing with unhappy cusotmers...(just give us back the car and be quiet)...lol...

Not to mention the high price of ownership makes fuzzy math easier for the public to not understand...Ownership by individuals implies and requires responsibility and being materialistic, two rapidly declining ideas...lol

Most futuristic city planners and bureaucrats envision no provisions for automobiles in housing or commercial developments, so full time ownership is made intentionally uncomfortable...etc., etc...

Just rambling...sorry...not sorry...lol....

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by docwra

Amazing. Im not the guy telling everyone EVs are shit when Ive not actually driven one

Nope you’re the aviation dude, working in one of the most polluting industries out there lecturing others about climate catastrophe while driving a Z.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Not to mention bragging about your ‘clean’ energy while people need warm banks to keep from freezing to death.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by snizzle

https://www.motor1.com/news/651791/h...rogram-ioniq5/

Originally Posted by Mr_Draco

I don't see the issue here.

Their subscription service isn't an addition to the purchase price if you buy the vehicle. What you linked is just a lease program. Instead of the typical 3 year lease contract agreements, they are offering people the ability to lease them on a month to month basis instead.

I think the point of this program is to give people the opportunity to live with an EV for a while so that they can make a solid determination as to whether or not an EV fits their lifestyle. If not, turn the vehicle in and keep it moving. If so, buy what you’re driving.

Originally Posted by 90503

Good point. Or it could also be just good old fashioned rent-a-car...lol.

Just to add, I recall there is somewhat a school of thought/plan by the mfrs that they want or would prefer to keep the ownership of EVs to themselves. They want to determine the total use/reuse/recycle of the batteries and save themselves the hassle of dealing with unhappy cusotmers...(just give us back the car and be quiet)...lol...

There have been a couple battery leasing schemes, mostly in China and other parts of Asia. Vinfast, a Vietnamese car company, does exclusively battery leasing / battery swapping in their home market. They are looking to also offer the battery leasing here in the US. Not sure how that’s gonna work out. Personally, I would not buy or lease a vehicle where I had to lease the battery.

Ford is also taking a position that if you lease a Ford electric vehicle, you cannot buy the vehicle at end of lease. You have to turn it in. There are a couple reasons I can think of that they might do this…

1. They want the cars back so that they can recondition them, including possibly changing the battery, for sale through their CPO program. That can help keep the pricing up on the used vehicles. Of course they would have zero control over vehicles that are purchased as opposed to leased.
2. They want to make certain they can capture the used batteries for use in their remanufacturing process.

Personally, I think it’s a little bit of each.

Originally Posted by 90503

Not to mention the high price of ownership makes fuzzy math easier for the public to not understand...Ownership by individuals implies and requires responsibility and being materialistic, two rapidly declining ideas...lol

Most futuristic city planners and bureaucrats envision no provisions for automobiles in housing or commercial developments, so full time ownership is made intentionally uncomfortable...etc., etc...

Just rambling...sorry...not sorry...lol....

.
So far every comparison of cost of ownership comparison leans heavily in favor of EVs when comparing vehicles of the same type and class. Thing is, most consumers do not know how to do the math based on kWh used.

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I think the point of this program is to give people the opportunity to live with an EV for a while so that they can make a solid determination as to whether or not an EV fits their lifestyle. If not, turn the vehicle in and keep it moving. If so, buy what you’re driving.


There have been a couple battery leasing schemes, mostly in China and other parts of Asia. Vinfast, a Vietnamese car company, does exclusively battery leasing / battery swapping in their home market. They are looking to also offer the battery leasing here in the US. Not sure how that’s gonna work out. Personally, I would not buy or lease a vehicle where I had to lease the battery.

Ford is also taking a position that if you lease a Ford electric vehicle, you cannot buy the vehicle at end of lease. You have to turn it in. There are a couple reasons I can think of that they might do this…

1. They want the cars back so that they can recondition them, including possibly changing the battery, for sale through their CPO program. That can help keep the pricing up on the used vehicles. Of course they would have zero control over vehicles that are purchased as opposed to leased.
2. They want to make certain they can capture the used batteries for use in their remanufacturing process.

Personally, I think it’s a little bit of each.

.
So far every comparison of cost of ownership comparison leans heavily in favor of EVs when comparing vehicles of the same type and class. Thing is, most consumers do not know how to do the math based on kWh used.

How much do those studies value the opportunity cost of time lost to searching for a charging station and then the time lost to charging?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Wyzz Kydd

How much do those studies value the opportunity cost of time lost to searching for a charging station and then the time lost to charging?

That was one of my problems with the Anderson Group study you posted earlier. They tried to attach an hourly wage to the time spent driving to a charger and the time spent actually charging. What they did not do was subtract the time that EVs don’t spend at the gas station because they do about 90% of their charging while the owner is not using the car. The owner is either sleeping or at work, so those 5-10 minute sessions at the local gas station are eliminated. If the amount of time spent at charging stations away from home / work are added into cost, the only fair approach is to either subtract about 10 minutes once or twice a week or add that into the “cost” of driving an ICE car. I doubt you consider the time you spend at the pump into your cost of operating your car.

So, anecdotally, over the past year our Chevrolet Volt (RIP) spent zero time waiting for charge at charging stations outside of home and spent about 10-15 minutes at gas stations last year (only had to add gas twice). It only charged at home and on two occasions I took it to visit clients whom I knew had charge stations on their property.

As for finding charge stations, every EV worth its salt can automatically locate charging stations on GPS and will suggest which stations you should stop at on any trip that you route with GPS. Some will allow you to reserve a time slot based on when your trip plan has you near a station you should stop at, so there’s no waiting in line when you get there.