[590_The_Judge]

Originally Posted by SPARTAN sui

Oh good lord, I quote from that forum.



If that isn't rabid fanboyism, I don't know what is. According to him, the ZL1 1LE is so unwanted and trash because dealers are selling them for THOUSANDS below MSRP. While the highly sought after GT350 is selling for ABOVE MSRP because people want it sooo badly and it's sooo good.

Or in a place called reality, Ford doesn't have a handle on their dealerships and are letting their dealerships markup high end vehicles to make an absurd profit on someone that doesn't know what they're buying.

ADM is a scam, if you pay ADM on a vehicle you're a fool. ADM is a lose lose for customers, why would you root for that?! That makes no god damn sense.

I've never seen someone argue against dealer discounts before.

On the GT500, front end teaser looks awesome. Competition is good, I'd rather see manufactures producing more high end sports cars than not. I won't buy one, but I look forward to how Chevy will answer this. Maybe a z28? Who knows. Competition drives manufactures to produce better products at a better price.

Its not just Ford... all the Chevrolet dealers where i live in Los Angeles are asking between $10k and $20k over sticker. In order to get my ZLE, i had to pay $1,000 over sticker... pissed me off, but couldnt get the car any other way. Im sure if i waited long enough i could have gotten a better price, but with everything saying production is limited to between 1300 and 1500 this year... i had to pay it.

Peter

[Gunkk]

Ford lets ‘em have ADM to compensate for all the warranty work they get peanuts for...

[SPARTAN sui]

Originally Posted by kwav8r

While I wholeheartedly agree with you I will also say 'there's a sucker born every minute.'

Ford dealers are just taking advantage of them- getting their licks in where they can.

It’s really too bad people (dealerships) can be that scummy. But you’re right.

Originally Posted by 590_The_Judge

Its not just Ford... all the Chevrolet dealers where i live in Los Angeles are asking between $10k and $20k over sticker. In order to get my ZLE, i had to pay $1,000 over sticker... pissed me off, but couldnt get the car any other way. Im sure if i waited long enough i could have gotten a better price, but with everything saying production is limited to between 1300 and 1500 this year... i had to pay it.

Peter

That’s so frustrating. I can understand why you would pay that. I would travel across the country before I paid ADM personally. I traveled 8 hours to get mine because no local dealership was getting Camaro allocation.

[590_The_Judge]

[/QUOTE]That’s so frustrating. I can understand why you would pay that. I would travel across the country before I paid ADM personally. I traveled 8 hours to get mine because no local dealership was getting Camaro allocation.[/QUOTE]

Fortunately my wife is the best negotiator i have ever met... talked them down from $10k over to just 1. We called them out on it, everyone got really uncomfortable, they said some crap, i told them their business model is designed to have everyone make money at msrp and they are taking advantage of customers with adm... then the wife did her thing. They didnt know how to deal with us. At the end of the day, on a $73k vehicle, $1k to get it isnt the end of the world. I wouldnt have gone for more.

[SPARTAN sui]

Fortunately my wife is the best negotiator i have ever met... talked them down from $10k over to just 1. We called them out on it, everyone got really uncomfortable, they said some crap, i told them their business model is designed to have everyone make money at msrp and they are taking advantage of customers with adm... then the wife did her thing. They didnt know how to deal with us. At the end of the day, on a $73k vehicle, $1k to get it isnt the end of the world. I wouldnt have gone for more.

That’s amazing, you picked a winner!

[kwav8r]

Originally Posted by 590_The_Judge

Its not just Ford... all the Chevrolet dealers where i live in Los Angeles are asking between $10k and $20k over sticker. In order to get my ZLE, i had to pay $1,000 over sticker... pissed me off, but couldnt get the car any other way. Im sure if i waited long enough i could have gotten a better price, but with everything saying production is limited to between 1300 and 1500 this year... i had to pay it.

Peter

That sucks. Main reason I passed on a GT350 was when the salesman told me the ADM was $10K.

When I asked him to explain what the ADM was for he didn't like my response, "that sounds kinda like I have to give you $10K to let you sell me the car". Told him he could keep his car. I'm sure he didn't care, somebody bought it a week later.

[590_The_Judge]

Originally Posted by SPARTAN sui

That’s amazing, you picked a winner!

Hell yeah! She used to fight competitively, shoots guns, rides motorcycles, is an amazing mom, let me buy a zl1 1le... i am very blessed. ��

[590_The_Judge]

Originally Posted by kwav8r

That sucks. Main reason I passed on a GT350 was when the salesman told me the ADM was $10K.

When I asked him to explain what the ADM was for he didn't like my response, "that sounds kinda like I have to give you $10K to let you sell me the car". Told him he could keep his car. I'm sure he didn't care, somebody bought it a week later.

Such a scam. I emailed gm corporate asking about this specifically... here is their response:
To answer your question on MSRP, it is the dealer’s discretion on how they price their vehicles. The dealerships buy the inventory from us, and then are free to sell them as they wish to the end consumer. We cannot dictate to them the price that they must sell the vehicle at. However, due to the nature, rarity, and the collective nature of the car that you are purchasing, this is more than likely the reason why the price is being commanded the way that it is. Thank you for your feedback. I will pass along to the brand teams for the performance vehicles for their consideration.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by Badmojo

I think a few things are pretty realistic:

1. The GT500 will have more than 700+ HP and be faster in a straight line than a current gen ZL1 if it can hook up. If it can't hook up, the owners will put drag radials on every car just like the Hellcats. Handling is anyone's guess, but Ford was comparing the car to the Porsche GT3 on the proving grounds. Curb weight is anyone's guess, but it is probably going to be the determining factor in how fast the car actually is.

2. It will cost MORE than the current generation ZL1 and likely have INSANE ADM for the first year of production.

3. Current GT350 owners will get significant butt-hurt and cry when they try and sell the GT350.

4. If you want to be a "top dog", then add a pulley, tune, CAI, and exhaust to your ZL1. It is unlikely that GM will immediately respond with a faster Camaro immediately.

This is the problem now with the HP wars, too much power for the tires to handle it. We need a breakthrough in tire technology.

I currently have the F80 M3 and can tell you even with extreme performance tires and with stock power levels, it is very frustrating to drive fast because it is very traction limited.

To me, unless you are on the drag strip, traction limited cars and intrusive traction control systems is a total buzz kill. It is so frustrating to drive fast in the M because the systems just fight you the whole way. I know GM has a killer system, but still.

The last car I had that was very well balanced and had just enough power that the tires could handle and you could go balls out in was the C5 Z06.

It is a bit frustrating to only be able to use half throttle to keep from bouncing off the stability/traction control system or to destroy your tires in smoke.

This is one reason why the GT3 is so awesome, is has the HP, but they dial down the TQ a little and give you a high redline, so much more usable power and well balanced.

The 1LE did very well with putting its power down and it wasn't even that hot outside when I did my test drive. I can't wait for my lease to end on the M, I can't wait to have the ZL1 1LE.

[JB'sZL1]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

This is the problem now with the HP wars, too much power for the tires to handle it. We need a breakthrough in tire technology.

I don't think we need tire tech to keep up with hp...although tire tech keeps improving.

The problem is the "fad" of 20's being placed on these cars because it "looks better."

It's simple: these cars should have 17's or 15's off the lot if you remotely want to push them.

[TLSTWIN]

Originally Posted by JB'sZL1

I don't think we need tire tech to keep up with hp...although tire tech keeps improving.

The problem is the "fad" of 20's being placed on these cars because it "looks better."

It's simple: these cars should have 17's or 15's off the lot if you remotely want to push them.

It isn't just because "it looks better", there is no way the braking needed to stop these cars properly and repeatedly would fit inside a wheel that size.

I hope ford does build a beast of a car. Its about time they finally went to an independent rear suspensions to have a car that handled great. It's just a shame they don't build enough of the cars for more people to enjoy, then that would curb some of the ADM. But it will never stop it.

I am a muscle car guy first, then a bowtie guy next

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by TLSTWIN

It isn't just because "it looks better", there is no way the braking needed to stop these cars properly and repeatedly would fit inside a wheel that size.

I hope ford does build a beast of a car. Its about time they finally went to an independent rear suspensions to have a car that handled great. It's just a shame they don't build enough of the cars for more people to enjoy, then that would curb some of the ADM. But it will never stop it.

I am a muscle car guy first, then a bowtie guy next

I am a track rat car junkie, that doesn't go to the track. LOL. I do love factory track day specials though as daily drivers.

I love the Z06's, M's, RS's, and 1LE's of the world and I love getting in these special cars on a daily basis, even if I don't track them.

[JB'sZL1]

Originally Posted by TLSTWIN

It isn't just because "it looks better", there is no way the braking needed to stop these cars properly and repeatedly would fit inside a wheel that size.

I hope ford does build a beast of a car. Its about time they finally went to an independent rear suspensions to have a car that handled great. It's just a shame they don't build enough of the cars for more people to enjoy, then that would curb some of the ADM. But it will never stop it.

I am a muscle car guy first, then a bowtie guy next

Well, I was addressing handling the power from a previous post...not braking.

They do make 18"'s that readily fit...why not put them on? Looks.

So you address a different issue: stopping power. That's what needs to increase in tech. We have the hp, and we have the wheel and the tire to support that hp. If the brakes are too big for a 15" or 17" (they are not too big for a an 18"), then technology needs to advance proportionately for the brakes.

Either way, even an 18" will give you better handling than a 20". Why don't they install them from the factory: the "looks" fad.

[Xlr8ion]

It’s a drag car who cares.We are more interested in road racing. Let it play with the Dodge Demon.I like racing for more than 12 seconds.