[mikeyg36]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Performance costs money, be it in parts or R&D. If you've got a limited budget for both, there isn't much you can do.

So they could charge more for the car, and therefore sell less (which would necessitate a higher price & so on) or spend less on bringing a new car to market (use carry-over parts, share components with other cars, skimp on R&D, etc). But that isn't really going to draw customers in either, because it results in a lesser car than what could be if it weren't on a shoestring budget. Other cars that sell a handful of units fall back on quarter million dollar pricetags. But you can't charge supercar prices for a Viper either. Its kinda a no-win situation for them.

What Chrysler needs to do is see what they can borrow from/share with Maserati & Ferrari on the next-gen Viper. And make sure it goes on sale at least a year away from the C8.

Like I said I 100% agree with you, but it backs Chrysler into a corner. IMO they should come out with a budget Viper to compete with the Stingray. Only option I see that could substantially bring down costs. I can't see them sharing anything with Italians simply because Ferrari buyers wouldn't want a car that shares parts with the Viper. I can't see Sergio going for it either.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by mikeyg36

Like I said I 100% agree with you, but it backs Chrysler into a corner. IMO they should come out with a budget Viper to compete with the Stingray. Only option I see that could substantially bring down costs. I can't see them sharing anything with Italians simply because Ferrari buyers wouldn't want a car that shares parts with the Viper. I can't see Sergio going for it either.

Ferrari is a long shot, I'll admit that. But maybe Maserati could work out. Its largely a forgotten brand, and I don't think its customers are uber-diehards like its more well known cousin. And Sergio seems very interested in product sharing among American & Italian brands, so I wouldn't put it past him.

[mikeyg36]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Ferrari is a long shot, I'll admit that. But maybe Maserati could work out. Its largely a forgotten brand, and I don't think its customers are uber-diehards like its more well known cousin. And Sergio seems very interested in product sharing among American & Italian brands, so I wouldn't put it past him.

I could see them sharing parts with Alfa, but not Maserati because Ferrari and Maserati share so much in the first place.

[nester7929]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Its not just the engine that makes the car expensive. The Z06 (and all Corvette derivitives) have a base car that sells tens of thousands of units per year. That makes the per unit cost of R&D as well as tooling for parts much lower than when you sell only a few hundred units.

This.

Also, the rumor mill is suggesting that the upcoming Hellcat Challenger will have more HP than the Viper. Normally, companies won't allow one car to outperform it's flagship model, so this could be interpreted as a sign that the Viper is on the chopping block.

Maybe Dodge is starting to realize it's cheaper to upgrade an existing car than create one from scratch. It's sad no matter what, because the Viper is an iconic car and I'd hate to see it go due to Chrysler's handling of the project.

[mikeyg36]

I just don't understand why they don't put the 6.4 Hemi in there, retune the chassis, remove the CF, and sell it for 65-70k. They'd sell a lot more, which will allow them to reduce costs of the V10 model.

[nester7929]

Originally Posted by mikeyg36

I just don't understand why they don't put the 6.4 Hemi in there, retune the chassis, remove the CF, and sell it for 65-70k. They'd sell a lot more, which will allow them to reduce costs of the V10 model.

Because that company is run by idiots.

[King T]

I thought the C6 ZR1 sales would have been a good measure to follow


2009 Corvette ZR1
$105,000
1,415 sold

2010 Corvette ZR1
$107,830
1,577 sold

2011 Corvette ZR1
$109,800
806 sold

2012 Corvette ZR1
$111,525
404 sold

2013 Corvette ZR1
$112,600
482 sold

[King T]

Even the GT-R has modest sales


2009 Nissan GT-R
$76,840
$79,090 Premium Edition
1,730 sold

2010 Nissan GT-R
$80,790
$83,040 Premium Edition
1,534 sold

2011 Nissan GT-R
$84,060 (Premium Edition only, base was dropped)
877 sold

2012 Nissan GT-R
$89,950 Premium Edition
$95,100 Black Edition
1,294 sold

2013 Nissan GT-R
$96,820 Premium Edition
$106,320 Black Edition
1,188 sold

2014 Nissan GT-R
$99,590 Premium Edition
$109,330 Black Edition
$115,710 Track Edition
1,237 sold

[Highland Ranger]

Issues with the viper are:
- Price
- Quality
- Refinement

Best is the Head2Head video where the guy says he expects the car to punch him in the crotch at redline.

Bottom line is there are just better cars out there to spend your money on.

Too bad too, this thing was a legend. I'd like to see them give Corvette a run for its money - we all benefit from that kind of competition.

[King T]

Originally Posted by nester7929

This.

Also, the rumor mill is suggesting that the upcoming Hellcat Challenger will have more HP than the Viper. Normally, companies won't allow one car to outperform it's flagship model, so this could be interpreted as a sign that the Viper is on the chopping block.

Seems like it's no rumor


SRT’s ‘Hellcat’ Supercharged HEMI May Be More Powerful Than Viper V-10

Dodge is set to introduce a mild update for its Challenger for the 2015 model year, an update that's expected to include the addition of a new supercharged HEMI V-8 for the range-topping SRT model. The new supercharged HEMI V-8, which has been nicknamed the Hellcat, is believed to be a 6.2-liter unit, and according to some recent comments from SRT boss Ralph Gilles it may just be more powerful than the 640-horsepower V-10 in the Viper supercar.

"We have a situation where, you know-- we may have a situation--where the flagship car is not the most powerful car in our arsenal,” Gilles told Hot Rod magazine. “So we have an internal horsepower race as well as an external one."

The Challenger SRT with the Hellcat will likely be a special model, similar to the 2014 Chevrolet Z/28 which is priced at $75k. This means pricing will probably fall well north of even the Challenger SRT 392’s $46k starting price, which makes sense if the car ends up the most powerful in SRT’s lineup.

The good news is that the mighty mill is expected to end up in other SRT products. Let’s hope one of them is a hardcore Viper developed along the lines of the GTS-R racing version; such a car might just be the ticket to dethroning the 2015 Corvette Z06 in the American supercar wars.

Stay tuned for an update.

That would really be slapping Viper and Viper owners in the face if this Hellcat engine makes a lot more than the V10. But then again, I can see that happening because Fiat wouldn't be nervous of a high horsepower Challenger, whereas if the Viper had more it would be on the heels of Ferrari F12 Berlinetta.

[King T]

[mikeyg36]

Originally Posted by nester7929

Because that company is run by idiots.

That's unfortunately true. It's incredible how incompetent Chrysler is.

[Thrillz]

Originally Posted by Highland Ranger

Issues with the viper are:
- Price
- Quality
- Refinement

Best is the Head2Head video where the guy says he expects the car to punch him in the crotch at redline.

Bottom line is there are just better cars out there to spend your money on.

Too bad too, this thing was a legend. I'd like to see them give Corvette a run for its money - we all benefit from that kind of competition.

+1. This sums up the viper problems perfectly imo.


Remember when we first seen the first vipers on the streets back in 1992. It blew my mind the first time i seen one.

[King T]

Originally Posted by nester7929

Because that company is run by idiots.

Originally Posted by mikeyg36

That's unfortunately true. It's incredible how incompetent Chrysler is.

Chrysler hasn't had a say in its own affairs since the late '90's.

Starting with its takeover aka "Merger of Equals" by Jürgen Schrempp and Mercedes into DaimlerChrysler

Continued into the clueless acquisition by Cerberus Capital Management that knew absolutely 0 about the auto industry, and for the most part didn't care about it

"For years, Cerberus was largely a trading shop specializing in distressed debt. But by the mid- 1990s, Mr. Feinberg expanded into buying and selling distressed companies and hired dozens of seasoned corporate executives to run them. Chrysler was the biggest prize he had ever bagged, and many co-investors say they always believed Cerberus’s stake in Chrysler’s auto operation was never the main reason the firm was interested in the company.

According to five people who heard Cerberus’s Chrysler pitch, all of whom requested anonymity because of confidentiality agreements, Mr. Feinberg’s deputies valued the financing unit more than the auto operation. In fact, the deputies believed, the finance unit’s value covered the cost of buying Chrysler, making the car company something of a bonus — if that part of the investment worked out, great; if not, Cerberus could still profit on the finance unit."

Hired one of the worst CEO in U.S. history, Bob Nardelli, and Cerberus tried to sell off the Viper separately.

....And now enter Sergio Marchionne and Fiat. Sergio would only green light the 5th gen Viper if it could be a positive business case. That means no serious money was going to be thrown at it, and it would have to make do with what it can (no all-new platform, no new or heavily revised V10, no DCT/Auto, etc..)

Sergio doesn't care about the Viper. If it sales, cool that's a bonus. If it doesn't, well we didn't sink too much into it and will pull the plug when necessary.

When have the talents and assets at Ferrari on hand, Sergio could have easily sent some engineers or advisors over there to help development, and make it the very best in its class segment.