[xgnxs]

Originally Posted by Sintmk

IDK, I'm not going to say I'm much of a GM/Ford/Fiat diehard. The Camaro will be my first American in quite awhile. However, I think this is one of those old rivalries die hard scenarios.

IMO, ford isn't going to drop a motor with +700hp in anything other than the GT, doesn't make any sense to me to produce a race car, when you already sell a race car, and the Mustang chassis isn't going to compete with the current Vette lineup, with a GT500 est. pricing sitting right in that sweet spot.

The hellcat is a dog and pony show getting spread out over the Fiat lineup. Don't be surprised to see one in a RAM or a Jeep. It may have 700+hp, but it's not model specific, and while they may be classy looking vehicles, I haven't heard much word on what the upcoming versions of the charger/challenger will be like....regardless of the fact that Marchionne is planning on doing some wild things with company setup/direction.

As was previously mentioned, I think the GT500 and the Z28 should be close running companions. With neither company willing to venture too far into Vette/Porsche territory

Ford can venture anywhere they want, they don't have a car above the mustang to "protect" (with the GT at a rumored $400k, it's not exactly close in price to anything else they currently have). The GT350R, not GT500, is for the Z/28. The GT500 is for the Hellcat / ZL1.

[Raven87]

I honestly do not believe that GM/Chevrolet gives two hoots about what the HP is that a Hellcat or GT500 has. If they did, when Ford brought out the 662 HP GT500, they would have at least bumped the ZL1.

They didn't.

When the Hellcat came out at 707 HP, again, GM could have bumped the HP but with the Gen 6 on the immediate horizon, no way would that happen.

And, with the big dog Vette being at 650, we will never see more than 645 for the next Z-car from GM.

GM has - so far - been more about a car with balance and more than one feature like HP. Technology, road track worthiness (and not just at the 1/4 mile), etc has been their mainstay with the Camaro.

Look back at the original ZL1s - they still did not have more HP than the Vette. If it weren't for the COPO back door, we would not have seen a 427 Camaro at all from GM.

So GM does NOT care if another manufacturer has more HP in their comparable platform.

And that's fine by me. For me, it is not about who has the biggest number under the hood - it's about THE CAR.

[Loading.....]

Originally Posted by Raven87

Look back at the original ZL1s - they still did not have more HP than the Vette. If it weren't for the COPO back door, we would not have seen a 427 Camaro at all from GM.

So GM does NOT care if another manufacturer has more HP in their comparable platform.

And that's fine by me. For me, it is not about who has the biggest number under the hood - it's about THE CAR.

But the orginal ZL1s was a one trick pony like the Hellcat, straight line speed.

Here is my prediction, there will be a Gen6 Z/28 and ZL1. The Z/28 will be the track focused Camaro and the ZL1 will be the straight line, High HP car. I'm thinking old rules have gone the way of the Dodo (Protecting the Corvette).

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by Loading.....

But the orginal ZL1s was a one trick pony like the Hellcat, straight line speed.

Here is my prediction, there will be a Gen6 Z/28 and ZL1. The Z/28 will be the track focused Camaro and the ZL1 will be the straight line, High HP car. I'm thinking old rules have gone the way of the Dodo (Protecting the Corvette).

huh?

are you comparing the 1969 ZL1 to the 2015 Hellcat?

If yes or no...HUH???

The 2012 ZL1 was not a 1 trick pony, so i'm really lost on where you are going with this.

a 2012 ZL1 posted 7:41.27 at Nurburgring - 1 BIG trick.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

The Hellcat is not what GM should be worried about. GM should be concerned with the next GT500.

the Hellcat is... The Hellcat. The Ford GT's are Chevy's rival

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

GM shouldn't try to match existing cars. They should be trying to beat them in every way possible. They tried to match the GT500 and look what happened.

Yes^^ An LT4 equipped Camaro is predictable and will be trumped by Ford immediately

[Waiting46]

Anyone else thinking that the "EcoBeast" may be fords Twin Turbo 6 that theyre using for the new GT? Itd be a great test bed for an engine architecture that (correct me if I am wrong) ford doesnt have. Basically, a way for them to recoup some of the engineering costs of the GT

which could mean that GM could be building a bigger TT6 for the Z/28. They mentioned using a smaller displacement engine for the original '28, why not bring in a 600+ HP TT6 that spools up to 10k (or whatever)

[Loading.....]

Originally Posted by DenverTaco07

huh?

are you comparing the 1969 ZL1 to the 2015 Hellcat?

If yes or no...HUH???

The 2012 ZL1 was not a 1 trick pony, so i'm really lost on where you are going with this.

a 2012 ZL1 posted 7:41.27 at Nurburgring - 1 BIG trick.

The person that I quoted said "original" ZL1. So i was referring to the Original ZL1.

[fradaj]

Motor Trend did a comparison between the ZL1 and the Hellcat. I was surprised how close the ZL1 was to the Hellcat in acceleration and how close the Hellcat was to the ZL1 on the handling course.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...t/viewall.html

[SuperSound]

Originally Posted by fradaj

Motor Trend did a comparison between the ZL1 and the Hellcat. I was surprised how close the ZL1 was to the Hellcat in acceleration and how close the Hellcat was to the ZL1 on the handling course.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...t/viewall.html

You are misled on the handing part. Check some other vehicle times in their figure 8 and compare to the difference between the Hellcat and ZL1. That 0.7 seconds is a big difference. The Hellcat isn't an oil tanker by any means but isn't really isn't that close to ZL1.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

[DenverTaco07]

Originally Posted by Loading.....

The person that I quoted said "original" ZL1. So i was referring to the Original ZL1.

oh...still a cool video though.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by Raven87

I honestly do not believe that GM/Chevrolet gives two hoots about what the HP is that a Hellcat or GT500 has. If they did, when Ford brought out the 662 HP GT500, they would have at least bumped the ZL1.

They didn't.

When the Hellcat came out at 707 HP, again, GM could have bumped the HP but with the Gen 6 on the immediate horizon, no way would that happen.

And, with the big dog Vette being at 650, we will never see more than 645 for the next Z-car from GM.

GM has - so far - been more about a car with balance and more than one feature like HP. Technology, road track worthiness (and not just at the 1/4 mile), etc has been their mainstay with the Camaro.

Look back at the original ZL1s - they still did not have more HP than the Vette. If it weren't for the COPO back door, we would not have seen a 427 Camaro at all from GM.

So GM does NOT care if another manufacturer has more HP in their comparable platform.

And that's fine by me. For me, it is not about who has the biggest number under the hood - it's about THE CAR.

One thing to consider/remember it that Ford will without a doubt learned a great deal about how to make S550 handle any road track developing GT350. These lessons will allow for development of a GT500 that is much more capable than its predecessors.

This means that the next GT500 will be built in a manner not utterly divergent from that which lead to the last ZL1. A high powered pony car that will be a great all around package.

So, if the next GT500 can handle and brake as well, and provide DD comforts on par with the Zxx; it begs the question...

Why would GM be content to release a 650hp Zxx to compete with a possibly, and most likely 700+hp GT500?

[motorhead]

I guess it depends on if straight is all you're worried about. The hellcat has already beaten the new Z06 in that department a couple if times. If it can do that then the new ZL1 (if they call it that) better have more power than the Z06. For me, I don't really think it needs to beat the hellcat at the strip. It just needs to be attainable. The hellcat really isn't.

[PalmerGA]

Hopefully, we are approaching the day when auto companies will say "enough is enough" and stop building these foolishly high HP cars for the general public (street users). I don't know if Ford or Chrysler offer a COPO equivalent (not street legal), but they should.

My fear is, if this HP race continues, our Government will eventually jump in and put a limit on how much power the general public needs to have available for driving around on the streets.

[Trans damm]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

Why would GM be content to release a 650hp Zxx to compete with a possibly, and most likely 700+hp GT500?

Maybe Because it seems like the fan base is content being second. I have been flamed over and over for asking for more, rebutted with ring times and comparisons. Even sales figures. Lol

Originally Posted by motorhead

I don't really think it needs to beat the hellcat at the strip. It just needs to be attainable. The hellcat really isn't.

If by attainable you mean ability to purchase without Dealer markup?, that day will come. I applaud Dodge for building a car with this kind of demand.

Originally Posted by PalmerGA

Hopefully, we are approaching the day when auto companies will say "enough is enough" and stop building these foolishly high HP cars for the general public (street users). I don't know if Ford or Chrysler offer a COPO equivalent (not street legal), but they should.

My fear is, if this HP race continues, our Government will eventually jump in and put a limit on how much power the general public needs to have available for driving around on the streets.

WTF??