01-19-2024, 12:32 PM | #15 |
Camaro6 2016-2018
Drives: sometimes Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 18,460
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Well it was certainly not a business failure in it's first 3 generations. Go look up the numbers.
yeah sales fell off in the 4th generation, and it didn't make business sense to build a new generation with no platform to share it with. The 2005 mustang shared parts with other new ford products at the time. and yes the mustang has a more devoted following but i would defy anyone to look at a 70s, 80s or 90s Camaro vs. Mustang and say the mustang looked better, or that it handled better or was faster. And as far as sales, 10 years ago the Camaro was leading sales. Since 2019 the Camaro has fallen way off, but hold, the Mustang is now under 50,000 sales per year too. the segment cannot support 3 cars. long live the mustang and camaro. %^&(* the challenger.
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01-19-2024, 02:46 PM | #16 | |
Drives: 2019 Camaro 1SS1LE Join Date: Jan 2024
Location: Utah
Posts: 178
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Quote:
It had a good run and carried momentum into 2011, but by 2012 the coyote was on the scene and another iconic legend relaunch stole the show for the year with the Boss 302. 2013 Camaro gets the 1LE package, and by 2014 we've arrived at the last decade. The S550 stole the show, and with an IRS the Mustang wasn't considered to just be a straight-line pony car anymore. I agree, the challenger is a boat and I'd never own one. I rented one once, it is extremely comfortable. But it drinks. Respect to the hellcat, but I only like to stop 1 time for fuel when I drive to Vegas, and the Hellcat can't do that lol. Pretty sure a F-16 idles with better fuel economy There were some 70's Mustang's that I thought looked better than the Camaro, I can't speak to their performance. Everything in the 70's was pretty pathetic. The 80's I hands down agree the Camaro was the looker. I've always loved the IROC Z/28 in that deep red. I think the 90's the Camaro got ugly, and by 98 it was ruined for me. But the 98 Firebird was a huge improvement, I'd kill for a WS6 Ram Air today, just to keep in the back under a cover and show people like a coin collection. Probably one of the sexiest domestic cars to touch pavement until the '02 SVT Cobra. Anyways, it's not right or wrong thing here, just an opinion of why the Camaro is ending. I pray we just don't see it re-launch as an EV. Or maybe... yeah let them relaunch it as an EV! I'll open a retrofitting shop and gut the electrics and stick 'vette goodies in their place |
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01-19-2024, 03:40 PM | #17 |
Camaro6 2016-2018
Drives: sometimes Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 18,460
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not trying to hate, you seem like a nice guy, i just disagree on your points.
firstly you can lose in sales and still be doing very well. secondly you seem to be unaware of the Pontiac Firebird which rode on the same platform and competed for sales. At one point the Camaro and Firebird combined for about a half a million sales per year. it's like ford talking about the F150 being number one in sales year after year. Yeah and Gm sells a chevy truck and a GM truck that's the same thing and combines for more sales.
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Last edited by AZCamaroFan; 01-19-2024 at 03:52 PM. |
01-19-2024, 05:43 PM | #18 | |
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Drives: 2023 Camaro 1SS Join Date: Apr 2014
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Quote:
For better or worse, the Camaro has too much power for being "just" RWD. That's part of what makes it fun, but putting that power to the ground in a way that really sticks is also seriously fun. An EV Camaro would need to be a dual-motor/AWD setup to satisfy anyone willing to give it a look. I assume some folks on here have driven (really driven) an EV and can see and feel the potential application to a muscle car. It won't be quite the same, but it will be different in exciting ways. There's more than plenty room for enthusiasts in an EV world. Looks like Dodge will have the first muscle car EV on the market. We can test theirs and tell GM how to do it better. If there's still any guys around GM who worked on the 4th, 5th, 6th gen cars and have any say in an EV Camaro, I think we'll be pleased. They haven't let us down in the past. Keep the faith? |
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01-19-2024, 06:52 PM | #19 | ||
Drives: 2019 Camaro 1SS1LE Join Date: Jan 2024
Location: Utah
Posts: 178
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Quote:
The Mustang didn't share a chasis with any other platform that I'm aware of. Sure, it shared engines and drivetrains to some degree. Like you couldn't find a Chevy 5.7 in everything for 50 years lol. Even Chevy had a 5.0 for a while. I would also make the same arguement for the F150. Back in the day Ford/Mercury had the Crown Vic and Grand Marqui. Same chasis, different flavors. Quote:
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01-19-2024, 07:24 PM | #20 |
Drives: 2018 Camaro 2SS A8 Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: East Tennessee
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Just putting it out here, higher sales ≠ better product.
Sales---and by extension, popularity---is just a proxy to product quality, one that used to be much more reliable than it is today, yet it seems people still equate one to the other all too often.
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01-19-2024, 07:27 PM | #21 |
Drives: 2024 2SS vert w/M6 & Dual Mode. Red Join Date: May 2023
Location: NJ
Posts: 185
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The Fox bodied Mustang shared bones with the Ford Fairmont (and Mercury stable mate) for nearly two decades. Of course that's now ancient history, but worth mentioning because the Firebird hasn't been made in nearly a quarter century (can't believe it is gone that long).
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01-19-2024, 08:09 PM | #22 |
Camaro6 2016-2018
Drives: sometimes Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 18,460
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actually the mustang did share a chassis. the first generation with the Falcon, the second generation with the Pinto, and the third generation with the Fairmont and Mercury Zephy. the 1994 generation was also based on an updated version of that platform. When the 2005 mustang came out it shared a chassis with the Thunderbird and Lincoln LS.
also when the Camaro came back in 2009 without the Firebird it was selling just a little bit more than the two were selling together in 2002. But it was a success because the platform was already paid for and for the price they were making per model.
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01-19-2024, 08:15 PM | #23 | |
Drives: 2019 Camaro 1SS1LE Join Date: Jan 2024
Location: Utah
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Americans also eat cheeseburgers by the truckload, and there's an obesity problem in this country. I'm not saying sales figures are an absolute metric proving the Mustang was ever better by any means. I'm just saying people choose the Mustang over the Camaro more. Just like mobs continue to line up at McDonalds for that super-size me. People will buy things, sometimes even when those things are trash. |
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01-19-2024, 09:16 PM | #24 |
Camaro6 2016-2018
Drives: sometimes Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Phoenix
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years ago an auto writer tried to explain it by saying 'there seems to be a touchy-feely thing that surrounds the mustang for some reason'
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01-20-2024, 08:11 AM | #25 |
Drives: 2021 Camaro LT1 Join Date: Oct 2023
Location: Minnesota
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It's funny how two cars that are extremely similar can also be so different. I own a 2017 Mustang GT PP1 M6 and a 2021 LT1 M6. I think Ford prioritized comfort and styling way too much.
The Coyote is a good engine, but 5 liters is way too small. They should have gone to at least 5.5 or 5.7 liters to get better performance out of it. The suspension on the PP1 from the factory is so soft that I feel it's borderline dangerous in a performance situation. The car is also larger than I would prefer. I think Ford could have easily gotten a couple hundred pounds out of the car, which would have improved it so much. As a driving enthusiast, I prefer performance over comfort and styling as my priority. But I understand why Ford focused on a broader market and sales over performance. I've read that the average age of a Mustang buyer is mid 50s. So the pony car market consists of a lot of older people who may not prioritize performance like I do. Yes, the Mustang does well in sales, but I think the Camaro is a lot more fun to drive. |
01-20-2024, 09:31 AM | #26 |
Drives: 2023 Chevrolet Camaro 2LT RS trim Join Date: Nov 2023
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 24
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But I understand why Ford focused on a broader market and sales over performance. I've read that the average age of a Mustang buyer is mid 50s. So the pony car market consists of a lot of older people who may not prioritize performance like I do.
Yes, the Mustang does well in sales, but I think the Camaro is a lot more fun to drive.[/QUOTE] This is very true at least in my situation, most people view both the Mustang and the Camaro as Niche vehicles that are usually used as a second or third vehicle. Of course not all people do and there are some that use them as DDs. I extensively researched both and i did look at the the Dodge Challenger but discarded that as it did not come from the factory as a convertible option although you can do an aftermarket for alot of money. I did have a 2000 Firebird Convertible with the legendary 3800. Great motor and one of GMs best. I do like GM better though and what sold me the most was the way the top folded down in the Camaro and not that old fashioned handle in the Mustang. IMHO the Camaro won in looks department as a very nice looking vehicle. If the Camaro does come back as an electric which i have my doubts, the Mustang may not be around to compete as they are just too expensive for some of the younger folks. |
01-20-2024, 01:11 PM | #27 |
Drives: Chevy Camaro 2021 ,rs, v6, manual Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Georgia
Posts: 894
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I have driven a 02 stang gt and a 08 gt many years ago. Drove like sh#t.
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01-20-2024, 06:56 PM | #28 | |
Drives: 2023 Chevrolet Camaro 2SS 1LE Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,213
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Quote:
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