Why on earth would going N/A be considered a waste of money and time

[dekan513]

i like FI but, our cars hard heavy anyway if u just wanting to say hey i got a 1000 hp car then , go FI. but i would rather say i have a fast car then a high hp car. not sayin u cant do both. but in my eyes i think having a good bolton and h/c car and the right setup is pretty fun. tht way ur not adding a lot more weight to fight. Put u a 25 lb bottle in the trunk and another 10 for noids and plate. have fun. nothing wrong or a waste of money at all. I know a few cars in my area running 9's with n/a ls motors. drive them all the time.

[Pro Stock John]

Some shops and car owners like FI, specifically positive displacement superchargers, because they are consistent, and less invasive of an install. Plus there is a general tendency with heavier late model cars to go blower. Part of that is also due to the lack of tuning software for Chryslers, and there being few options for cams in the Mustangs.

Other than folks going with really huge cams and not understanding the potential drivebility issues and need to change other stuff (more converter, gear), NA has always been a killer choice for LS powered cars.

[DuskSS]

Originally Posted by Kelly@PCMofNC

I personally don't care either way what the customer wants to do. I'm talking generally about street cars/occasional race cars, not something track dedicated.

If someone has the cash and wants to do the blower first, great. That's a HUGE gain right off the bat and really lights up the car for sure. You can make amazing numbers NOW and always go back and add an intake, headers, cam, heads later to get even more power.

Or, maybe some people don't want to blow $6k+ right off the bat and want to go the n/a route first. That's fine too. It's cheaper, and you get to gain power in stages...so you do intake and a full exhaust - that's a nice gain. Get used to that, add a cam. Get used to that, add some heads. Now you're really power hungry so you save your pennies and go forced induction.

Either way the end result is the same and I don't think one way is right or wrong. It's all about what makes YOU happy and fits your budget.

My 2010 Camaro is heads/cam and makes right around 500rwhp. I'd like a blower some day, but for now this set up is great for me.

My 2006 Silverado is blower only (TVS 1900), who knows what it makes (never dyno'd). That's a daily driver type vehicle, I don't want less gas mileage or to hear a loud exhaust on a full size truck so the blower alone is perfect and fits my bill.

My 2007 Trailblazer SS has both. It's heads, cam, and a TVS 2300. It sounds nasty and makes a ton of power.

I'm happy with all three as they are

Originally Posted by Kelly@PCMofNC

Disagree. If you're close to NC I will be glad to take you for a ride in my 500rwhp (ok, 496 but don't call me out) car that drives like stock.

Now, if you over cam it, or your tuner isn't so hot, hell yes a cammed car is a huge pain in the ass. But these days with the LSx's being so mod-friendly, making a 500rwhp daily driver that doesn't buck you off is no big thing at all.

Thanks Kelly for the posts.
Thats pretty much exactly where I will be as well right in that 500rwhp zone.

and exactly as you wrote both have thier place.
but since I came from the 5.0 days CHE comes first then blow the crap out of it

and yeh I think some people are thinking about huge cams in the 60s and 70s and how they were a pain to drive.
today's technology is great
The second Muscle era is upon us for sure.
It's incredible to go to street night at the track these days and watch a car roll right off the street and right up to the line and rip a 10 second or below pass on Street Slicks..
While purpose built 60s and 70s 80s drag cars used to be proud of those times.

[DuskSS]

Well this guy just keeps writing funny posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSRS55
Well according to Mr. Ted Jannetty (sure you know who that is ) he says the F.I. is the way to go and to not even waste your money with the cam in the L99. TVS puts over 500 to the wheels and according to him it's an absolute beast in the L99.
So with all due respect I stand by his opinions. And as far as 100 hp to the wheels on the auto that is totally possible with the cam as long as you have the supporting mods with it like headers, CAI ,exhaust...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSRS55

Oh and putting over 500 Hp without forced induction or Turbo....


Quote:
Originally Posted by SSRS55
For now I'll say not happening.. I'm yet to see one fifth Gen with over 500 horse to the wheels just with a cam/head package and no power adder like F.I., Nitrous or Turbo..
Until you provide me with your legit dyno sheet will I be a believer.. good luck but for now I still say B.S.

Oh and just to point out you said you would make more with your cam package then my car would with tvs and that my friend is 100 percent




"I said...

You really are pretty blind there are Lethal Racing and FSP Dyno slips all over this board with 500+ with just that package.

or you can google and find even more.

on more than 1 dyno might I add so it's not some badly calibrated dyno.

Phastek did a Lethal car on theirs and Matt from FSP tuned it and it was right at 500.

the last 4 lethal LS3s to come through there all made right at 500.

and I started another thread quoting you so you may want to pop in over there and defend yourself "


Funny stuff.

[axis]

Originally Posted by jasonpope2003

Well this guy just keeps writing funny posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSRS55
Well according to Mr. Ted Jannetty (sure you know who that is ) he says the F.I. is the way to go and to not even waste your money with the cam in the L99. TVS puts over 500 to the wheels and according to him it's an absolute beast in the L99.
So with all due respect I stand by his opinions. And as far as 100 hp to the wheels on the auto that is totally possible with the cam as long as you have the supporting mods with it like headers, CAI ,exhaust...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SSRS55

Oh and putting over 500 Hp without forced induction or Turbo....


Quote:
Originally Posted by SSRS55
For now I'll say not happening.. I'm yet to see one fifth Gen with over 500 horse to the wheels just with a cam/head package and no power adder like F.I., Nitrous or Turbo..
Until you provide me with your legit dyno sheet will I be a believer.. good luck but for now I still say B.S.

Oh and just to point out you said you would make more with your cam package then my car would with tvs and that my friend is 100 percent




"I said...

You really are pretty blind there are Lethal Racing and FSP Dyno slips all over this board with 500+ with just that package.

or you can google and find even more.

on more than 1 dyno might I add so it's not some badly calibrated dyno.

Phastek did a Lethal car on theirs and Matt from FSP tuned it and it was right at 500.

the last 4 lethal LS3s to come through there all made right at 500.

and I started another thread quoting you so you may want to pop in over there and defend yourself "


Funny stuff.

Why did you start a thread to make fun of a guy in another thread?

[Angrybird 12]

I must be old, every time I see someone post about FI I think Fuel Injection, which in the 60's that's what it meant.
Forced induction to me has always been Blowers for superchargers or Turbos for turbochargers. They were never lumped together in one category because the people that preferred one hated the other and vice versa.

[VADER SS L99]

This debate really depends on the user and his budget as well as his goals. Lets say a L99 owner wants 500RWHP and high 10's with no weight reduction but wants it to drive like stock under part throttle. I dont care what anyone says your not going to do this NA with the stock short block. Sure you could probably do it with a 427-454 with a great set of heads and Fast intake but thats going to cost over 10K easily. In this case it would be cheaper to bolt a Whipple on with 9PI which could then run high 10's all while having stock driveabilty. As long as your tuner was really good, you have enough fuel supply and you stayed at 9psi or under I see no reason why it wont last 100k miles.

Nothing wrong with making big power NA but just know its not going to drive as nice as a FI set up and after a certain point it will never make the power a FI set up can. To be completely honest if your trying to make this kind of car a more race oriented car then I'm here to tell you that you have a uphill battle ahead of you. For that you should have choosen a Y-body, 4th gen F-body. or I dare to say it a Mustang.

[mikeSS]

kind of funny i read that thread and saw that guy talking about cams being a waste or what ever. I see so many people doing cam only on LS3/l99. people seem to like it. It makes power and sounds great... and you can add a blower later. (with right cam) what i am missing ? lol

[SPCBA]

wanted n/a for road courses...got n/a for road courses...use n/a on road courses and daily drive. drives like stock and has better reliability then when gm sold it to me thanks to my tuner.

n/a is my thing sorry heat soak grenade machines i dont need forged internals for reliability.

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

If you are interested in anything other than going fast in a straight line, the last thing these cars need is another 100 lbs sitting over the front wheels.

[DuskSS]

Originally Posted by axis

Why did you start a thread to make fun of a guy in another thread?

I didn't start it to make fun of him rather move the argument here than instead iof the other guys thread.

But he is a stubborn one and said he didn't want to discuss it that Ted Jannetty told him so it was true end of story.
And even went so far as to say that N/A cam setups could never hope to achieve 500hp or close to it without serious work.
"Or magic fairy dust or to live in fantasyland"

I posted that to the Night Fury Thread and got some laughs out of that as well.

Just wanted to know what would cause such a closed minded opinion mainly.

[DuskSS]

Originally Posted by VADER SS L99

This debate really depends on the user and his budget as well as his goals. Lets say a L99 owner wants 500RWHP and high 10's with no weight reduction but wants it to drive like stock under part throttle. I dont care what anyone says your not going to do this NA with the stock short block. Sure you could probably do it with a 427-454 with a great set of heads and Fast intake but thats going to cost over 10K easily. In this case it would be cheaper to bolt a Whipple on with 9PI which could then run high 10's all while having stock driveabilty. As long as your tuner was really good, you have enough fuel supply and you stayed at 9psi or under I see no reason why it wont last 100k miles.

Nothing wrong with making big power NA but just know its not going to drive as nice as a FI set up and after a certain point it will never make the power a FI set up can. To be completely honest if your trying to make this kind of car a more race oriented car then I'm here to tell you that you have a uphill battle ahead of you. For that you should have choosen a Y-body, 4th gen F-body. or I dare to say it a Mustang.

All I got to say is you don't make it to the Houston street meets much.
we have 700+hp gen5s on stock blocks with cams heads and blowers or nitrous that destroy all those cars on the street and the strip with ease as well as autocross and SCCA events.
its amazing how the gen5 wakes up with proper suspension under it.

These cars roll onto the strip on the same tires they wear on the street and run 10s all day long and still have enough street manners to be driven all over Texas on club cruises even on 200+ mile trips.


People are misunderstanding the thread. my plans are Night Fury Cam and heads and supporting mods this year being that the night fury is an OUTSTANDING FI cam it will be ready for a SC next year.
But the gentlemen in the quote was saying that cams and head work were a total waste of money and people just just bolt a TVS on and be done.
Which I don't quite understand as the TVS or any blower would be suffocating through the stock heads intake and valvetrain. sure it bolts on over 100hp.. but it could be so much more if you did the supporting mods so it could breathe.

[mikeSS]

Originally Posted by jasonpope2003

All I got to say is you don't make it to the Houston street meets much.
we have 700+hp gen5s on stock blocks with cams heads and blowers or nitrous that destroy all those cars on the street and the strip with ease as well as autocross and SCCA events.
its amazing how the gen5 wakes up with proper suspension under it.

These cars roll onto the strip on the same tires they wear on the street and run 10s all day long and still have enough street manners to be driven all over Texas on club cruises even on 200+ mile trips.


People are misunderstanding the thread. my plans are Night Fury Cam and heads and supporting mods this year being that the night fury is an OUTSTANDING FI cam it will be ready for a SC next year.
But the gentlemen in the quote was saying that cams and head work were a total waste of money and people just just bolt a TVS on and be done.
Which I don't quite understand as the TVS or any blower would be suffocating through the stock heads intake and valvetrain. sure it bolts on over 100hp.. but it could be so much more if you did the supporting mods so it could breathe.

maybe you need to re-read the guy you quoted ?

He never say anything about a stock block not being about to make that power.... what i read was about drivability...

[Bell040]

Originally Posted by axis

That's a matter of opinion and yours is skewed. I've driven big cammed cars and they drive nothing like stock. I don't care who your tuner is, getting a big enough cam to make 500+whp idle well and have good street manners is impossible. A FI car drives completely like stock until you get on it. There's no comparison for daily driving.

+1