[Nsxmatt]

Originally Posted by JB'sZL1

Is this why you came to this forum?

You changed your post...and I and others read it before you changed it.

In the simplest terms: offensive.

He quoted a post from the previous page. Now you're talking about another post because you realized you're an idiot and can't read. If you have a problem put me on ignore, otherwise hush.

[IneedAZ]

Originally Posted by YLWJKT

If they don't have the crate yet they have the lower HP PCM.
The crate has a race PCM in it.

A few have gone low 10's high 9's with the crate stuff.
Keep in mind that in most of the country the tracks are still cold and people are still figuring the Demon out.
A stock car running low 10's is no joke, and there's room for mods on the Demon still.
Most stock ZL1's that I have seen run low 11's. I have seen one run high 10's, but I believe he's tuned.
Roll racing is a different matter.
I would bet more than half of these guys have no idea how to race, and are just stabbing the pedal and spinning.
I haven't come across one to run yet.
I'm not willing to pass judgement one way or the other yet.

OK, so its not a matter of just using a different key like the regular HC for different power levels.

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

I saw a brand new 18 GT auto with just radials running 11.7's this last weekend. just because it's not your cup of tea I don't find that an overpriced flop.

And with how many other mods... making the 11.7 run unimportant. For me, I truly dislike Ford and Mustang, but what Mustang did to the 2018 refresh car to make them perform closer to the Camaro in some aspects and better than the Camaro in other aspects is quite an accomplishment. Camaro blew there chance with the outcome of the 2019 refresh joke.

[JB'sZL1]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

He quoted a post from the previous page. Now you're talking about another post because you realized you're an idiot and can't read. If you have a problem put me on ignore, otherwise hush.

Wondering (not really) how much you talk like this in person.

You would not get very far in life in my circles...or many others.

Mucho bravado...on the internet. I am impressed with your dignity, candor and bravery. I bow to you...and want to be just like you. Not at all really.

Your repeated intemperance and emotionality speaks volumes.

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by motorhead

Of the videos Ive seen with this "roll" racing, and I use the term loosely because it's not really racing at all, it doesnt look like the Demon is getting traction. Everyone wants to go off of these roll racing street videos to see how the Demon does. That isnt at all what the car was designed for. You need to think of it more as a COPO with a vin in a way. Although that really isnt accurate in the other direction. It was however designed to be the fastest production street car on drag strip wearing everything in the crate with 100 octane in the can. I know that is very single purpose, but that is what it was designed to do. A very few amount of us can appreciate that. I know most won't get it in this world as we live today.
If it continually gets spanked on the track by other production cars while wearing the crate and 100 octane then and only then will it be a failure.

What Dodge did in its entirety with the Demon is nothing but amazing. The day will never come IMO to see a OE built mass produced Mustang, or a OE built mass produced Camaro that is totally compliant like the Demon, and carrying the same weight, same 840 hp, same 8 speed auto, same gear ratio and have the probability to run 9.60's and or 2.3 seconds to 60.

[Nsxmatt]

Originally Posted by JB'sZL1

Wondering (not really) how much you talk like this in person.

You would not get very far in life in my circles...or many others.

I've got through 41 years just fine. Maybe it's because of my appearance but I don't find many people that talk to me in person the way they do online. Funny how that works. I'll be at Camaro fest, feel free to come up and educate me on the proper way to talk if you'd like.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

The Demon in Nick's video was running the 808 HP tune, full weight, and whatever else. Basically what I could consider MOST owners to be caught in the wild with. If you have a ZL1, run them. The more people race the Demon to find out where it really sits outside of their ridiculous and preposterous manufacturer claims, the better.

Originally Posted by lt4camaro

What Dodge did in its entirety with the Demon is nothing but amazing. The day will never come IMO to see a OE built mass produced Mustang, or a OE built mass produced Camaro that is totally compliant like the Demon, and carrying the same weight, same 840 hp, same 8 speed auto, same gear ratio and have the probability to run 9.60's and or 2.3 seconds to 60.

I would be willing to agree that we'll probably never see Camaro or Mustang ATTEMPT to build a car just like the Demon. That would be a true statement. I doubt they would stoop to the level of building such a one trick pony, beyond just being a straight line speed one trick pony but also being a DRAG STRIP ONLY one trick pony apparently. So their fastest production car lingo only matters on a drag strip according to SRT fan boys that say roll races aren't valid because it was meant to race from a dig.

But to load it up with conditionals to cover your argument of using the "Same weight, same 840 HP, same 8 speed auto, same gear ratio" etc. is pretty ridiculous. Obviously Chevy or Ford would have their own way of doing things if they did attempt to build a car that beat the Demon. Personally, I think that just about any manufacturer with a little spare time could take their family 2 door, put a 840 HP engine in it, tune up the same 8 speed that's in their entire lineup, stick Bushwhacker fender flares on, negotiate a tire deal with a drag radial company, and put together a 1$ crate with a few odds and ends in it. It's not that hard, at all. It's the easiest dimension of a car to build. Period. Case and point, people can make all kinds of 60s-70s muscle cars run 8s and 9s by themselves in their garage, but no way in HELL any of them could build a proper track car that could handle Laguna Seca or the 'Ring in any kind of timely manner.

I bet if you could ever get an answer from Dodge, they'd say that the Viper ACR was WAY WAY, let me repeat, WAY harder to design, test, and execute than this demon contraption. True aero testing, true cornering and suspension tuning, actual track situations, chassis tuning, and countless more. The ACR is/was truly a fast car. The Demon is their 10+ year old Challenger with a big engine, stick on flares, hopped up version of the 8 speed that they use in all their cars, trans brake, and a crate sold after you buy it. I don't know why people are groveling on the floor like it's some kind of Pagani Huarya. It's just a drag strip one trick pony...But what's even sadder is that at the drag strip it's still getting dusted by cars that it's supposed to beat. Remember, DODGE claimed that the Demon was the fastest production car and should beat out likes of the 720S, 918, LaFerrari, P1, Bugatti SS, and whatever else is in the 9.7-10.2 range. Turns out, that's a load of shit. But we'll see, maybe when these owners figure out the car they'll magically start taking .5 to an entire SECOND off of their passes to get what Dodge was claiming.

My $.02.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

I've got through 41 years just fine. Maybe it's because of my appearance but I don't find many people that talk to me in person the way they do online. Funny how that works. I'll be at Camaro fest, feel free to come up and educate me on the proper way to talk if you'd like.

41 years eh? LOL!! Same age as me...one of us drives a Camaro RS and is on the 6th Gen ZL1 boards doing nothing but starting shit and not adding anything useful to the conversation. Yea. You got VERY far in life. Congrats!!

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Intake and tune A10 thoroughly gapping that 808 HP Demon even with the demon having the head start in two races. Like I said, are these things much quicker than a Hellcat on drag radials when the Demon is on the 808 HP tune?

And needless to say the 570S destroyed it. These Demons seem to be really sluggish from a roll, at this point I'm putting them right inline with a Hellcat. Maybe their advantage comes from their 60 ft capability.

Looks like if you're a Demon owner you'd better put it on the 100 octane tune or you may lose more often than you thought in your "fastest production car", and even then I'm not so sure the 32 HP is going to make that big of a difference.

And Nick's car does not make 625-630 RWHP. I think it put down just over 600, like 610 RWHP I want to say. Makes it look better for him to use a lower number anyway, not sure why he tried to add to it.

I'm not gonna try to convince you of anything. But do you really think a ZL1 with a tune and CAI is going to gap a Demon when a stock ZL1 is tied with a stock HC and the Demon has 100 more HP? Seriously? So do you also believe when Mustang guys are saying their tune/tire/intake GTs are beating ZL1s?

DRs or not, the Demon is putting mid 700s to the ground and weighs less than the HC. Do you really think a ZL1 with about 550 to the wheels and about 300 pounds less weight is going to gap it like that? I mean let's put the pro-Chevy BS aside and use common sense. Approx 550 HP in a 3900-4100 pound car with driver vs approx 750 HP in a 4300-4500 pound car with driver. Do you really think on a 40 MPH roll the 550 hp car should be gapping or even keeping up with the 750 HP one?

[ULTRAZLS1]

The guy driving it was a fool. You can hear the thing spool up when the go against the 570. He was just flooring it and waiting for the downshift. That will get you murdered in a roll race. He wasn't even in the right gear to start the race.

What is the regular pump gas hp on a demon? 800? Its only 840 on race fuel. A cai and tune will pickup what on a zl1? 50 hp?

The cars will be about 100 hp apart and the zl1 is around 400 lbs lighter. That would make for a decent race but the demon should still win I would think.

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I'm not gonna try to convince you of anything. But do you really think a ZL1 with a tune and CAI is going to gap a Demon when a stock ZL1 is tied with a stock HC and the Demon has 100 more HP? Seriously? So do you also believe when Mustang guys are saying their tune/tire/intake GTs are beating ZL1s?

DRs or not, the Demon is putting mid 700s to the ground and weighs less than the HC. Do you really think a ZL1 with about 550 to the wheels and about 300 pounds less weight is going to gap it like that? I mean let's put the pro-Chevy BS aside and use common sense. Approx 550 HP in a 3900-4100 pound car with driver vs approx 750 HP in a 4300-4500 pound car with driver. Do you really think on a 40 MPH roll the 550 hp car should be gapping or even keeping up with the 750 HP one?

It's always up to the drivers as we saw in this race. If the Demon had been piloted perfectly, than maybe it would have won. Maybe. But Nick, who I usually find to be a tool, actually produced pretty good results here. Even when waiting for the Demon to slam it before he went, AND coming from behind, his ~610-620 RWHP ZL1 pulled on it. I'm not counting the races he did against Mike and the one he did were they both went on 3 but the Demon driver was leaving it in D and waiting for the downshift. Had all races been like that, then I wouldn't have said anything. But the 2 races where Nick let him get the drop (Especially the one with the 570S where he started WELL after the Demon got a more than fair "hit") were pretty telling to me. So I'm not going to bother talking HP and power to weight and all that. We all know where the Demon sits there and where a stock ZL1 sits (Of course, Nick's ZL1 was NOT stock, Intake and Tune, and Nick drove his properly).

But to answer your kind of sarcastic questions, yes, on the street, if the Demon driver doesn't know what he's doing, you have a pretty good chance at beating them in a ZL1. Same thing for Hellcats, Z06s, and many other cars that are in the ZL1's ball park. If we put a perfect driver in both cars, sure, the Demon PROBABLY would beat it, more so from a dig than from a roll though. An A10 ZL1 is not going to be dismissed easily though from a roll, this is proven now.

And don't underestimate me, I'm not taking either the first video or this video at face value. I'm not saying "Oh, ZL1 won, it's faster" like a brain-dead idiot. I'm factoring in many things. My logic shows me that even in the race with Nick, once both cars were in their power and were running side by side, Nick's car pulled. So I'm thinking, ok, even if the Demon had started properly in 2nd gear and the driver knew how to drop it back into automatic once they started, I'm not seeing the Demon pulling away from Nick's ZL1. At best, they'd run side by side until instant-jailtime speeds.

That's all. And I really think the argument "It's a Hellcat with 100 more HP" is dumb when it's tried to be used to show how fast it is. Just like what's happening with the C7 ZR1 (If you are on CF you'd be reading this), traction on these high HP, RWD, front engined cars is holding them back severely. The ZR1 is HARDLY outrunning Z06s under 100-120 MPH. Again, I know many factors play into this like aero and stuff. But the same thing is happening with the Hellcat vs. Demon I think. The Hellcat already pushes into the limits of traction. A Demon and a Hellcat, raced equally with drag radials, no trans brake, and regular foot to the floor racing, would probably be VERY close up until 100+ MPH. Benefits of 750+ HP aren't going to come into play until triple digits. And that's well proven on the street and on the track.

Keep it a friendly discussion. I'm here to dispute facts and figures, not hate or love on one car particularly.

[lt4camaro]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

It's always up to the drivers as we saw in this race. If the Demon had been piloted perfectly, than maybe it would have won. Maybe. But Nick, who I usually find to be a tool, actually produced pretty good results here. Even when waiting for the Demon to slam it before he went, AND coming from behind, his ~610-620 RWHP ZL1 pulled on it. I'm not counting the races he did against Mike and the one he did were they both went on 3 but the Demon driver was leaving it in D and waiting for the downshift. Had all races been like that, then I wouldn't have said anything. But the 2 races where Nick let him get the drop (Especially the one with the 570S where he started WELL after the Demon got a more than fair "hit") were pretty telling to me. So I'm not going to bother talking HP and power to weight and all that. We all know where the Demon sits there and where a stock ZL1 sits (Of course, Nick's ZL1 was NOT stock, Intake and Tune, and Nick drove his properly).

But to answer your kind of sarcastic questions, yes, on the street, if the Demon driver doesn't know what he's doing, you have a pretty good chance at beating them in a ZL1. Same thing for Hellcats, Z06s, and many other cars that are in the ZL1's ball park. If we put a perfect driver in both cars, sure, the Demon PROBABLY would beat it, more so from a dig than from a roll though. An A10 ZL1 is not going to be dismissed easily though from a roll, this is proven now.

And don't underestimate me, I'm not taking either the first video or this video at face value. I'm not saying "Oh, ZL1 won, it's faster" like a brain-dead idiot. I'm factoring in many things. My logic shows me that even in the race with Nick, once both cars were in their power and were running side by side, Nick's car pulled. So I'm thinking, ok, even if the Demon had started properly in 2nd gear and the driver knew how to drop it back into automatic once they started, I'm not seeing the Demon pulling away from Nick's ZL1. At best, they'd run side by side until instant-jailtime speeds.

That's all. And I really think the argument "It's a Hellcat with 100 more HP" is dumb when it's tried to be used to show how fast it is. Just like what's happening with the C7 ZR1 (If you are on CF you'd be reading this), traction on these high HP, RWD, front engined cars is holding them back severely. The ZR1 is HARDLY outrunning Z06s under 100-120 MPH. Again, I know many factors play into this like aero and stuff. But the same thing is happening with the Hellcat vs. Demon I think. The Hellcat already pushes into the limits of traction. A Demon and a Hellcat, raced equally with drag radials, no trans brake, and regular foot to the floor racing, would probably be VERY close up until 100+ MPH. Benefits of 750+ HP aren't going to come into play until triple digits. And that's well proven on the street and on the track.

Keep it a friendly discussion. I'm here to dispute facts and figures, not hate or love on one car particularly.

And we will never know the true amount or level of mods that Nick has done, His ZL1 should never pull a properly running and driven Demon in that manor. I would love to see a dyno pull on that demon that day along with Nicks car same day same dyno. I would speculate the Demon was not up to par even for its 808 hp tune and Nick... well he can be sneaky.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Electric cars are going to own this in a few years though. Just way too much potential there.

No argument there. Instant torque is something special

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

The Demon in Nick's video was running the 808 HP tune, full weight, and whatever else. Basically what I could consider MOST owners to be caught in the wild with. If you have a ZL1, run them. The more people race the Demon to find out where it really sits outside of their ridiculous and preposterous manufacturer claims, the better.



I would be willing to agree that we'll probably never see Camaro or Mustang ATTEMPT to build a car just like the Demon. That would be a true statement. I doubt they would stoop to the level of building such a one trick pony, beyond just being a straight line speed one trick pony but also being a DRAG STRIP ONLY one trick pony apparently. So their fastest production car lingo only matters on a drag strip according to SRT fan boys that say roll races aren't valid because it was meant to race from a dig.

But to load it up with conditionals to cover your argument of using the "Same weight, same 840 HP, same 8 speed auto, same gear ratio" etc. is pretty ridiculous. Obviously Chevy or Ford would have their own way of doing things if they did attempt to build a car that beat the Demon. Personally, I think that just about any manufacturer with a little spare time could take their family 2 door, put a 840 HP engine in it, tune up the same 8 speed that's in their entire lineup, stick Bushwhacker fender flares on, negotiate a tire deal with a drag radial company, and put together a 1$ crate with a few odds and ends in it. It's not that hard, at all. It's the easiest dimension of a car to build. Period. Case and point, people can make all kinds of 60s-70s muscle cars run 8s and 9s by themselves in their garage, but no way in HELL any of them could build a proper track car that could handle Laguna Seca or the 'Ring in any kind of timely manner.

I bet if you could ever get an answer from Dodge, they'd say that the Viper ACR was WAY WAY, let me repeat, WAY harder to design, test, and execute than this demon contraption. True aero testing, true cornering and suspension tuning, actual track situations, chassis tuning, and countless more. The ACR is/was truly a fast car. The Demon is their 10+ year old Challenger with a big engine, stick on flares, hopped up version of the 8 speed that they use in all their cars, trans brake, and a crate sold after you buy it. I don't know why people are groveling on the floor like it's some kind of Pagani Huarya. It's just a drag strip one trick pony...But what's even sadder is that at the drag strip it's still getting dusted by cars that it's supposed to beat. Remember, DODGE claimed that the Demon was the fastest production car and should beat out likes of the 720S, 918, LaFerrari, P1, Bugatti SS, and whatever else is in the 9.7-10.2 range. Turns out, that's a load of shit. But we'll see, maybe when these owners figure out the car they'll magically start taking .5 to an entire SECOND off of their passes to get what Dodge was claiming.

My $.02.

Why so much anger in your heart? It's only a car.