Motor Trend Head to Head: 2015 Camaro 1LE vs. new 2015 Mustang 5.0 GT PP

[LostPony]

I am a life long Mustang fan, but am also an enthusiast who has owned a wide variety of cars over the years. This car disappoints, plain and simple.

First "Weightgate", and Ford's claims to have met their goals on weight. They changed their tune mid stream on this one, first saying or implying it would be lighter. Later just saying they met their goals and not saying what the hell that goal was.

Then saying they targeted the Boss 302 for performance. This was dumb as the 1LE had already trounced the Boss in magazine tests. They also offered that the competition was every car BUT a Camaro. BS!!!

Every person who has ever looked at a Mustang knows the Camaro is the DIRECT competition to this car. Saying things like targeting a 911 or M3 does not distract from that fact.

The next gen Camaro will be even quicker than the current one, even if it weighs the same, or God forbid a little more.

I for one find little redeeming about the new Mustang. I could give two s%^&s about how it cruises on the road because that is not my primary reason for buying a Mustang. It is performance, plain and simple. Deliver me a car that can lay the smack on cars twice its price, and its cross town rival. The Boss 302 did that. Then GM responded. Now Ford has dropped the ball.

It's 1994 all over again.

[LostPony]

Oh, and I might also add that targeting the 911 or M3 means they missed the target even more than they did against GM.

[87GNX]

Originally Posted by LostPony

I am a life long Mustang fan, but am also an enthusiast who has owned a wide variety of cars over the years. This car disappoints, plain and simple.

First "Weightgate", and Ford's claims to have met their goals on weight. They changed their tune mid stream on this one, first saying or implying it would be lighter. Later just saying they met their goals and not saying what the hell that goal was.

Then saying they targeted the Boss 302 for performance. This was dumb as the 1LE had already trounced the Boss in magazine tests. They also offered that the competition was every car BUT a Camaro. BS!!!

Every person who has ever looked at a Mustang knows the Camaro is the DIRECT competition to this car. Saying things like targeting a 911 or M3 does not distract from that fact.

The next gen Camaro will be even quicker than the current one, even if it weighs the same, or God forbid a little more.

I for one find little redeeming about the new Mustang. I could give two s%^&s about how it cruises on the road because that is not my primary reason for buying a Mustang. It is performance, plain and simple. Deliver me a car that can lay the smack on cars twice its price, and its cross town rival. The Boss 302 did that. Then GM responded. Now Ford has dropped the ball.

It's 1994 all over again.

1993 you mean, but I dont agree just yet. Give it till the next gen camaro arrives and lets see what Ford does. The 2015 mustang will be forgotten next year imo, unless Ford just cares about sales (wink wink)

[Baggerjack]

Originally Posted by markgws6

I love that -the 1LE is 90% of the Z/28. :-) I also loved the side by side track comparison. Looks like Ford did not do that great of a job with the "track edition" enhancements. But the brakes are good. That is one thing I wish GM would have improved on the 1LE by now...

They should have put the 6 piston brakes on the front, but I also understand that would have added quite a bit to the price!

[LostPony]

Originally Posted by 87GNX

1993 you mean, but I dont agree just yet. Give it till the next gen camaro arrives and lets see what Ford does. The 2015 mustang will be forgotten next year imo, unless Ford just cares about sales (wink wink)

I really dislike that argument. To release your product against the current product and not at least match it is a fail. I hope you are right and we get a more competitive car next year, but Ford has no way of knowing how much better the next Camaro will be.

Ford fans can dismiss this round as much as they want, but it doesn't change that we lost against the outgoing model of our direct competitor.

[BobDigi5060]

Never thought I'd find myself saying this, but the new Mustang looks like total shit parked next to the Camaro. Hideous.

[72MachOne99GT]

Originally Posted by 87GNX

1993 you mean, but I dont agree just yet. Give it till the next gen camaro arrives and lets see what Ford does. The 2015 mustang will be forgotten next year imo, unless Ford just cares about sales (wink wink)

No, he probably meant '94 where the newly designed Mustang just didn't offer anything better than the outgoing model (even if it was a redesign opposed to a big change) and continued to underwhelm compared to the top of the line Camaro (LT1 was a little faster than the stock 5.0)

I disagree with some of the arguments in here, but whole heartedly understand them.

My take on it is Ford improved the MAJOR complaint...a solid rear.
Gave it a fresh look (whether the majority on a camaro forum like it aside)
Updated and improved the interior.
And made sure it was still faster than a Camaro in a straight line.

Those 4 facts are what they need to sell 95% of their cars. Plain and simple.

Enthusiasts may be a little displeased by it's improvements, but it did improve in most of the areas it was lacking in.

[macalot]

Originally Posted by DivineStrike

Looks like i'll just be driving the car on the losing end of the performance aspect stock for stock. Whatever.
Camaro guys

Both sides are winners, don't fret it. Competition is good for us consumers.

[Egon]

Originally Posted by LostPony

I really dislike that argument. To release your product against the current product and not at least match it is a fail. I hope you are right and we get a more competitive car next year, but Ford has no way of knowing how much better the next Camaro will be.

Ford fans can dismiss this round as much as they want, but it doesn't change that we lost against the outgoing model of our direct competitor.

I don't understand this just from a consumer perspective. If I was one of the early adopters of the 2015 Mustang and then the next model year later they add a whole bunch of stuff to make the car better than my 2015 model I would be quite upset. It almost seems like they would be punishing their most loyal customers for being first in line. I wouldn't mind a new package coming along that wasn't offered initially, but fundamental changes to the car like what everyone is discussing would certainly put me off from ever buying a newly released model from that manufacturer ever again.

Fellow Camaro fans keep in mind that the 1LE was created by taking some of the go fast bits from the ZL1 along with some nice chassis tuning to produce something that sits between the base SS and the ZL1 and focused for the track. This also allowed Chevrolet to spread out their development costs for some of those go fast bits across more models, and its one of the reasons why the 1LE package is such a great deal. Since they already had those parts on the shelf why not make a few more bucks with an intermediate package and the 1LE was born. Unless Chevrolet plans on releasing the ZL1 or whatever its equivalent will be for the 6th Gen right out of the gates the base SS will not have a ready made set of go fast parts to do this with. So for that reason we may not have a 1LE for the 2016 model year.

I also think this might be why the Mustang Performance Pack falls so flat even for the previous generation Mustang. They did it the exact opposite of Chevrolet and released the PP first and then developed the Boss and GT500 after. They did not transfer the go fast bits from the Boss and GT500 back to the performance pack and thus it was not as impressive. (correct me if I am wrong on this assumption) My hope is that for the 6th Gen Camaro Chevrolet does it the same way they did for the 5th Gen 1LE even if it means we have to wait a year or two for it to be available. I would rather wait for the new ZL1 and Z/28 to hit the road and then let Al O and his henchmen raid the GM parts bins for the 1LE.

[woodside783]

Look what chevy did to the camaro to make it better. Ford can do it with the mustang, I think there was a lot left on the table.
But the 6 gens are coming. Maybe be with less weight and more power

[Melkor]

Originally Posted by BobDigi5060

Never thought I'd find myself saying this, but the new Mustang looks like total shit parked next to the Camaro. Hideous.

I have to agree. I know Carlos keeps talking about how it looks like the Mustang is now ready for the 21st century... but it just doesn't look good, at all.

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

There's an entire side of this "story" that Ford is keeping mum about: CO$T$ and future platform-chassis development.

The S550 criteria was changed after Farley was charged with revitalizing Lincoln. The S550, as revealed in Mustang form, is only one part of a larger puzzle. What Ford has shown so far would make a very credible MK-something Lincoln, with regard to ride and handling and vehicle dynamics. With 4-dr convenience and a boatload of luxury gizmos, this car would be a stellar Lincoln, with EB-4 and -6 engines.

"Floaty" ride, but comfortable and generally secure (until the limits are approached) is a Lincoln necessity, with regard to satisfying traditional North American luxury buyers. What we're seeing here, I believe, is more of a field test for Lincoln, and more appropriate Mustang derivatives will arrive through the Mustang's generational life cycle. Things like the current Mustang's suspension components and calibrations (or lack thereof) and tires are Ford's answer to meeting budget targets. So is the non-DI 5.0.

There's room for improvement, and Ford better have the plan laid out and executable by the time the AlphaMaro arrives, otherwise a handful of sales outside North America for Mustang will not stem the flood of sales you can expect from a focused, evolutionary Gen-6 Camaro.

[c5Legend]

Originally Posted by Stingray

I posted MT's official vid just released today in my original 1st post... but do watch the first 12 secs in their vid... Hehe err blooper.

"OOPS, FAIL"

yes Ford has

LMFAO!!!!

[72MachOne99GT]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

There's an entire side of this "story" that Ford is keeping mum about: CO$T$ and future platform-chassis development.

The S550 criteria was changed after Farley was charged with revitalizing Lincoln. The S550, as revealed in Mustang form, is only one part of a larger puzzle. What Ford has shown so far would make a very credible MK-something Lincoln, with regard to ride and handling and vehicle dynamics. With 4-dr convenience and a boatload of luxury gizmos, this car would be a stellar Lincoln, with EB-4 and -6 engines.

"Floaty" ride, but comfortable and generally secure (until the limits are approached) is a Lincoln necessity, with regard to satisfying traditional North American luxury buyers. What we're seeing here, I believe, is more of a field test for Lincoln, and more appropriate Mustang derivatives will arrive through the Mustang's generational life cycle. Things like the current Mustang's suspension components and calibrations (or lack thereof) and tires are Ford's answer to meeting budget targets. So is the non-DI 5.0.

There's room for improvement, and Ford better have the plan laid out and executable by the time the AlphaMaro arrives, otherwise a handful of sales outside North America for Mustang will not stem the flood of sales you can expect from a focused, evolutionary Gen-6 Camaro.

Those Lincoln bastards!

This is a well thought out hypothesis, and not one i haven't heard before. I just hope Lincoln hasn't sawed off too many of its own limbs to try to turn itself into something. Even if it doesn't get where Cadillac has in terms of popularity and image, it needs to shed its upscale Ford image (even if some of the criticisms are unfair).

And as mentioned, it took GM a few years to really really dial in their 5th Gen Camaro...i remember a lot of not so favorable reviews in 2010 in regards to overall handling and feel while it wiped the floor in acceleration against the Mustang. ...tables turn...and so do the priorities. ..