[RWT]

Interesting read:
https://www.thedrive.com/news/34604/...rly-collapsing

[delthawk5]

Originally Posted by RWT

Interesting read:
https://www.thedrive.com/news/34604/...rly-collapsing

That article says...literally nothing that hasn’t been said on this thread already.

[AZCamaroFan]

not only that, but doesn't even mention what's been going on in the country the last 4 months. another waste of time by someone who shouldn't be a writer.

[BigGuy81]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

not only that, but doesn't even mention what's been going on in the country the last 4 months. another waste of time by someone who shouldn't be a writer.

Now, with the pandemic taking a toll on all auto sales, the Camaro is getting dumped on—and that's putting it lightly.

First paragraph.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Great commercials and sufficient stock.

But some people with 50 college degrees insist the Camaro is not worth advertising money.

It was like pulling teeth to get my Camaro, I'm glad and happy to have it but GM does seriously suck in a lot of ways other companies don't.

50? Wow.

It's a simple business case. If GM believed that the cost of advertising had a profitable pay back you would see Camaro commercials. For me, maybe my 35 years in the industry make abundantly clear.

Let me walk you through it.

If GM spent $2,000,000 (and since everyone loves the Dodge commercials you could throw another several million more for Vin Diesel) to produce a commercial and then spent another $3,000,000 for airtime you'd be at $5,000,000 for just a near term advertisement (not counting on a celebrity).

Now IF GM is making a $2,000 profit on a Camaro (guessing), then they have to sell 2,500 more Camaros to just break even on the commercial.

It's why GM doesn't and hasn't had to advertise the Corvette with TV commercials.

Just not clear why everyone is so defensive and angry to the point of shouting down experience so you can be right. Oh wait, it's the internet, I forgot.

If TV advertising sold more Camaros at a profit, they would do it. It's that simple. Sorry, but it really is. Don't even need 1 degree for that. GM has told us many times and very clearly they are about profitability, not market share. So it's not about selling a few more Camaros, it's about maximizing profit on Camaros.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Number 3

50? Wow.

It's a simple business case. If GM believed that the cost of advertising had a profitable pay back you would see Camaro commercials. For me, maybe my 35 years in the industry make abundantly clear.

Let me walk you through it.

If GM spent $2,000,000 (and since everyone loves the Dodge commercials you could throw another several million more for Vin Diesel) to produce a commercial and then spent another $3,000,000 for airtime you'd be at $5,000,000 for just a near term advertisement (not counting on a celebrity).

Now IF GM is making a $2,000 profit on a Camaro (guessing), then they have to sell 2,500 more Camaros to just break even on the commercial.

It's why GM doesn't and hasn't had to advertise the Corvette with TV commercials.

Just not clear why everyone is so defensive and angry to the point of shouting down experience so you can be right. Oh wait, it's the internet, I forgot.

If TV advertising sold more Camaros at a profit, they would do it. It's that simple. Sorry, but it really is. Don't even need 1 degree for that. GM has told us many times and very clearly they are about profitability, not market share. So it's not about selling a few more Camaros, it's about maximizing profit on Camaros.

Everything you said is an exact reflection on the blind incompetence of the company. Go ahead and keep telling me how I'm wrong and you're right. Is it you're stuborn? Incompetent? Brazen overconfidence?

What good is the profit margin when you only sell a couple? Have you seen the sales chart? Or does Mary Barra and her merry band of managers show the chart upside down on the spreadsheet? You'd rather they sit on dealer lots and collect dirt than move inventory aparently.

Oh BTW, Bob Seager was on CBS This Morning a while a go. He talked about how proud he was to let GM use his song Like A Rock for the Silverado commercials. Not because he made whatever money he made on it, but because he and General Motors accountants crunched all the numbers and discovered that in the almost 20 year run of the Like A Rock Silverado commercials, GM produced and sold an extra 2 MILLION Silverados. Due JUST to his song. Which to him meant the guys and gals on the line had more work and more hours to make those trucks because there was more demand for them. Due to his what? Ahhhh yes, commercial.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

not only that, but doesn't even mention what's been going on in the country the last 4 months. another waste of time by someone who shouldn't be a writer.

Coronavirus is mentioned as a reason, but it's a level playing field for every car manufacturer.

To me, the article comments are where the real meat is at. Not a lot of mention of the performance, just the same old practicality and visibility complaints we have heard ad infinitum. Probably the same people that whine about the rise of SUVs, and yet they don't realize that they are their own worst enemy...

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Everything you said is an exact reflection on the blind incompetence of the company. Go ahead and keep telling me how I'm wrong and you're right. Is it you're stuborn? Incompetent? Brazen overconfidence?

What good is the profit margin when you only sell a couple? Have you seen the sales chart? Or does Mary Barra and her merry band of managers show the chart upside down on the spreadsheet? You'd rather they sit on dealer lots and collect dirt than move inventory aparently.

Oh BTW, Bob Seager was on CBS This Morning a while a go. He talked about how proud he was to let GM use his song Like A Rock for the Silverado commercials. Not because he made whatever money he made on it, but because he and General Motors accountants crunched all the numbers and discovered that in the almost 20 year run of the Like A Rock Silverado commercials, GM produced and sold an extra 2 MILLION Silverados. Due JUST to his song. Which to him meant the guys and gals on the line had more work and more hours to make those trucks because there was more demand for them. Due to his what? Ahhhh yes, commercial.

IMO Number 3 is right, it is more about profits than numbers.

Going back to what I said, they don't sell as many Porsche or Audi sports cars as Camaros, I'd imagine, but their price premium means that they are still making money at the end. Some people are more than willing to pay for the little shield or 4 rings at the front. I would say that luxury cars specifically thrive on selling fewer cars, but with higher profit margin on individual cars.

I am not sure if more marketing would have changed the overall profit, and especially that, admittedly, some of the practicality complaints are there.

Sent from toaster or something

[vtirocz]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

Everything you said is an exact reflection on the blind incompetence of the company. Go ahead and keep telling me how I'm wrong and you're right. Is it you're stuborn? Incompetent? Brazen overconfidence?

What good is the profit margin when you only sell a couple? Have you seen the sales chart? Or does Mary Barra and her merry band of managers show the chart upside down on the spreadsheet? You'd rather they sit on dealer lots and collect dirt than move inventory aparently.

Oh BTW, Bob Seager was on CBS This Morning a while a go. He talked about how proud he was to let GM use his song Like A Rock for the Silverado commercials. Not because he made whatever money he made on it, but because he and General Motors accountants crunched all the numbers and discovered that in the almost 20 year run of the Like A Rock Silverado commercials, GM produced and sold an extra 2 MILLION Silverados. Due JUST to his song. Which to him meant the guys and gals on the line had more work and more hours to make those trucks because there was more demand for them. Due to his what? Ahhhh yes, commercial.

Let's keep it civil! In my opinion, Number 3 is right on this one in regards to commercials improving overall profit margin on the Camaro for the reasons already spelled out in this thread.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by UnknownJinX

Going back to what I said, they don't sell as many Porsche or Audi sports cars as Camaros, I'd imagine, but their price premium means that they are still making money at the end. Some people are more than willing to pay for the little shield or 4 rings at the front. I would say that luxury cars specifically thrive on selling fewer cars, but with higher profit margin on individual cars.

I am not sure if more marketing would have changed the overall profit, and especially that, admittedly, some of the practicality complaints are there.

Sent from toaster or something

But Porsche and Audi has always been that way. People have always been willing to pay top dollar for one of those cars going back to the 60s and 70s.

Camaros? Part of the problem Number 3 and GM are running into here is that they're trying to force Americans to pay a premium for the Camaro now, when it never was intended to be a premium lable. Now look, I love my Camaro. But I would not have bought it if I couldn't have gotten $7k off sticker. And that was a hassle. Camaros are not Porsches and Audis. American performance was never for the rich and snooty.

If GM expects people to pay more and closer to sticker for a car, they have Cadillac.

[UnknownJinX]

Originally Posted by Petrol Head

But Porsche and Audi has always been that way. People have always been willing to pay top dollar for one of those cars going back to the 60s and 70s.

Camaros? Part of the problem Number 3 and GM are running into here is that they're trying to force Americans to pay a premium for the Camaro now, when it never was intended to be a premium lable. Now look, I love my Camaro. But I would not have bought it if I couldn't have gotten $7k off sticker. And that was a hassle. Camaros are not Porsches and Audis. American performance was never for the rich and snooty.

If GM expects people to pay more and closer to sticker for a car, they have Cadillac.

But pushing the numbers on its own without considering profit margin isn't the way either.

Granted, we would like to see more of marketing, but bean counters talk profits, not just sales figures.

IMO it may need both marketing and some design changes that can improve some common complaints without sacrificing performance to really do something to the sales, but again, I am no expert.

[arpad_m]

To those who remember, this entire discussion and what is happening to the Camaro reminds me of the Commodore Amiga, both its breathtaking rise and its eventual demise. Exact same "science" and marketing strategies applied at the corporate HQ, and of course Commodore is now but a tiny footnote in the annals of personal computing, despite having a product that was at least a decade ahead of its competition.

Interestingly, there are enthusiasts that still cherish the platform and keep it alive after 25 years, which is an eternity in the world of IT.

[V8 Firebird]

The sport car market is small in these days, so that is how big 3 treating in their pony car models now.

GM choices not seriously advertising and not give any huge discount in Camaro, Ford puts the Mustang nameplate in a daily electric crossover for keeping Mustang in future, and FCA doesn't want to give the Challenger a redesign and new platform until unsold.

Yea, the dealership is a trouble, so Ford is creating their own online sales like Tesla. Now, GM should follow them.

[Checkmate1]

What's killing the Camaro? 0 Marketing from GM.

Meanwhile, Ford throws a boat load of money at the Mustang and other SUV's. Lot more brand credibility on the street despite having an inferior car.

The other thing that hurts GM in general is they do not provide cars to influencers and YT personalities unlike Ford or other brands....

Whether we like it or not those influencers appeal to a wide reach of young adults as well.

All in all - bad marketing strategies.

[Petrol Head]

Originally Posted by Checkmate1

The other thing that hurts GM in general is they do not provide cars to influencers and YT personalities unlike Ford or other brands....

Excellent point. GM flat out refused to let Doug DeMuro do a review of the C8 Corvette before they hit dealerships when every other "serious, credible automotive media outlet" had already driven it and written their reports. GM flat out told Doug they consider him more of a novelty act on youtube who does silly 5 cent reviews and without automotive intelligence.

What GM ignored is that Doug has 2 million subscribers and before he had his youtube channel he was a distribution manager for Porsche North America. He may be young but he's an intelligent and credible automotive journalist.