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Old 03-10-2014, 10:27 PM   #1
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GM needs to listen to the consumers more.

(Not that it applies to SS guys) But us V6 guys really got screwed when they rolled out the LFX engine and decided to integrate the exhaust manifold. Not having long tube headers is awful.

You certainly didn't see Ford taking away long tubes for the Mustang V6...
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Old 03-10-2014, 11:40 PM   #2
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GM has been on a roll me thinks. Go GM go.
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Old 03-11-2014, 12:11 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by DSX_Camaro View Post
(Not that it applies to SS guys) But us V6 guys really got screwed when they rolled out the LFX engine and decided to integrate the exhaust manifold. Not having long tube headers is awful.

You certainly didn't see Ford taking away long tubes for the Mustang V6...
but...you do see them starting to phase out the V6 Mustang all together. although in this particular case the 2.3T should be an all around better performer than the 3.7
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Old 03-11-2014, 09:43 AM   #4
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The 2.3T is designed to be a revived SVO Mustang. They're also going to revive the Mach 1 and have a GT350 instead of a GT500 supposedly... They want more models.
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:34 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by DSX_Camaro View Post
The 2.3T is designed to be a revived SVO Mustang. They're also going to revive the Mach 1 and have a GT350 instead of a GT500 supposedly... They want more models.
Actually the 2.3 is the base engine, everywhere in the world but in the US. we kept the 3.7 mostly for entry cost reasons and rental car fleets. and Ford has said they will not have a special name for the ecoboost model (e.g. no SVO tag).

as to the mach and gt350 there definitely is a SVT product in development. we'll see how that turns out.

/thread jack
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Old 03-11-2014, 12:51 PM   #6
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The LFX not accepting headers is a bit of a bummer in some ways, but in reality I feel the LFX is an all around better and more mature version of the LLT.

LFX already starts with a HP advantage as it is . By the time you throw on high flow cats on the LFX versus LT headers on the LLT your basically even, if not still slighly ahead with the LFX.

Now add in the ability of the LFX to be tuned easier, along with reliability changes that were likely made to keep the timing chain from going out early and what not and I'd gladly take the LFX over my LLT (as long as i can keep my color lol)

The LFX is going to be phased out over the next year or two for what we hear is a new V6 called the "LGX". Not much information out about this engine yet.

Ford has chosen to use the turbo 4 as a base engine, and it will not get a new designated name over the base V6. Based on what I've read, the V6 may only last another year or two in the Mustang before you see it gone for good....unless the V6 sells better than Ford predicts.

As for GM, honestly I'll be a little surprised if they don't offer a turbo 4 as well, but I expect to see this next gen V6 in the 6th gen Camaro. I have a feeling this next gen V6 will be a very advanced engine, with all the goodies the LFX has (direct injection, cam phasing) along with cylinder shutoff and other fuel saving technology. I'd love to see a 3.6 - 3.8 liter V6 with all of the above technology. You could get great highway MPG with the cylinder shutoff, but then still be able to push 340 - 350HP with a decent displacement. Thats more HP than the stock turbo 4 will make, but I don't see any way the V6 could match the turbo 4 on low end torque.
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Old 03-19-2014, 12:33 PM   #7
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A turbo 4 is hardly a replacement for a V6 in my opinion. They are just too rough.

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Old 03-19-2014, 02:00 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by DSX_Camaro View Post
(Not that it applies to SS guys) But us V6 guys really got screwed when they rolled out the LFX engine and decided to integrate the exhaust manifold. Not having long tube headers is awful.

You certainly didn't see Ford taking away long tubes for the Mustang V6...
And yet you bought one anyway. You're sending GM mixed messages.
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Old 03-19-2014, 04:59 PM   #9
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All I know is it better be faster than any other V6 out there ,
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:14 PM   #10
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I don't think the engineering of the LFX was a deliberate attempt to hurt V6 guys. There's a lot more that goes into engine design than whether enthusiasts will like it.
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Old 03-19-2014, 05:28 PM   #11
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99% of the people who buy v6 Camaros won't be modding the engine. Plus it's GM's global V6 engine.
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Old 03-19-2014, 07:33 PM   #12
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Yeah I don't see how adding more horsepower and making it more efficient could be a bad thing.
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Old 03-19-2014, 08:46 PM   #13
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Wasn't the LFX head designed that way to simplify adding turbos? I'm pretty sure the LF3 turbo mounts directly to the heads.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:29 PM   #14
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Wasn't the LFX head designed that way to simplify adding turbos? I'm pretty sure the LF3 turbo mounts directly to the heads.
Not saying they didn't have the LF3 in mind when the LFX made its debut...but it wasn't designed that way specifically for adding turbos. The exhaust outlets, along with other small changes from the LLT were made to improve airflow and efficiency. It resulted in a modest power bump and peak torque coming on a bit sooner.

The LF3 (the twin turbo you speak of) is pretty similar to the LFX in that it is derived from it, but the LF3 has many internal changes and uses lots of different external parts as well.
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Old 03-19-2014, 09:49 PM   #15
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99% of the people who buy v6 Camaros won't be modding the engine. Plus it's GM's global V6 engine.
wrong, modded mine. I am getting a IPS Twin turbo setup, that will give any modded v8 muscle a run for its money (that is unless they are ridiculously modded with forced induction). I like to think of it as a modern muscle car using more efficiency and getting more mpgs. Also adding 11hp by adding an ingenious design to the LLT is a bad thing?
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Old 03-19-2014, 11:57 PM   #16
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wrong, modded mine. I am getting a IPS Twin turbo setup, that will give any modded v8 muscle a run for its money (that is unless they are ridiculously modded with forced induction). I like to think of it as a modern muscle car using more efficiency and getting more mpgs. Also adding 11hp by adding an ingenious design to the LLT is a bad thing?
you're the 1%. eventually you'll give up and move to a V8. cut your losses now and move up. my bike runs stock low 10's... Camaros are slow. My 929CBR was $8k out the door... probably a drop in the bucket for all your mods that you'll never get your money back. but hey... it's your $$$$
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Old 03-20-2014, 12:34 AM   #17
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you're the 1%. eventually you'll give up and move to a V8. cut your losses now and move up. my bike runs stock low 10's... Camaros are slow. My 929CBR was $8k out the door... probably a drop in the bucket for all your mods that you'll never get your money back. but hey... it's your $$$$
And I'll use it how I want to :P Not a waste to me at all. I think bikes are a waste of money but to each his own, and don't compare bikes to cars. Car=whole different experience from bike. It is not all about speed. It's All about the fun that can be had. For some people bikes don't thrill them.
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Old 03-20-2014, 07:43 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSX_Camaro View Post
(Not that it applies to SS guys) But us V6 guys really got screwed when they rolled out the LFX engine and decided to integrate the exhaust manifold. Not having long tube headers is awful.

You certainly didn't see Ford taking away long tubes for the Mustang V6...
I think...in the case of a corporate V6 engine (which is what it is)...lower weight, increased power, and fuel economy won vs the "can the customer replace the manifolds" argument.


For what it's worth - the Camaro team listens to it's customers (and enthusiasts) more than many other car lines put together. You might be familiar with the disciples...or the company's presence at the Camaro5 Fest and many other shows.

They're constantly listening...as I'm sure they've read this thread already.

But they're not about to let the customers design or engineer the car. Because we have no idea what we're talking about in the big picture, and that results in an Aztek.

Also...careful what you ask for...Ford may still have manifolds on their V6, but that doesn't, inherently make it better. The two companies take wildly different approaches to the same problems. It's really very interesting.
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Old 03-20-2014, 10:09 AM   #19
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But they're not about to let the customers design or engineer the car.
You mean the 6th Gen won't have a microwave and mini fridge as an option for the passenger seat?
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Old 03-20-2014, 10:42 AM   #20
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:31 AM   #21
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lol
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Old 03-20-2014, 11:34 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by maddoggyusa View Post
you're the 1%. eventually you'll give up and move to a V8. cut your losses now and move up. my bike runs stock low 10's... Camaros are slow. My 929CBR was $8k out the door... probably a drop in the bucket for all your mods that you'll never get your money back. but hey... it's your $$$$
Just sayin, but only those in a constang pursuit of endless power would feel the need to move up from a properly done TT LFX to a V8. I know everyone says you can't ever have enough power, but in reality you need to hit a point somewhere...otherwise you'd better have deep pockets. I've seen a TT LFX outrun a cammed V8, so if you really want to move up, that means your looking at an FI V8.

Not sure how you can compare a bike to a car. Not really fair don't you think?
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Old 03-20-2014, 12:41 PM   #23
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99% of the people who buy v6 Camaros won't be modding the engine. Plus it's GM's global V6 engine.
Let's be honest here...99% of the people that buy Camaros won't modify the engine regardless of how many cylinders hit has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maddoggyusa View Post
you're the 1%. eventually you'll give up and move to a V8. cut your losses now and move up. my bike runs stock low 10's... Camaros are slow. My 929CBR was $8k out the door... probably a drop in the bucket for all your mods that you'll never get your money back. but hey... it's your $$$$
Your bike has a V8? WOW, I'd like to see it. J/K!
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Old 03-20-2014, 12:46 PM   #24
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I was originally a little skeptical of the integrated exhaust manifolds, but now I think it is six of one/half dozen of another. It lowers weight and reduces manufacturing cost. You will probably never make the LFX sound as aggressive as an LLT with tuned headers, but you can get as much gain with a down pipe and high-flow cats on the LFX as headers and high-flow cats on a LLT. Given you start out with 11 hp more, that seems to be a plus if your goal is more power. If your goal is the most aggressive sounding V6 then yeah, it is a negative.
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Old 03-20-2014, 03:39 PM   #25
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Never buy a V6

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSX_Camaro View Post
(Not that it applies to SS guys) But us V6 guys really got screwed when they rolled out the LFX engine and decided to integrate the exhaust manifold. Not having long tube headers is awful.

You certainly didn't see Ford taking away long tubes for the Mustang V6...
I am not knocking any guys that own a V6 but....as a senior who has been into cars for 50 years I tell every young person the only way to fly is the V8. If you don't have enough money to buy a new one, find a low mileage used one or save enough to get the V8.

Every car I ever bought was a V8 and yes I saved an extra couple years to get one. Sacrifice is a word young people need to get used to. Two jobs was a no brainer during my younger years raising a family and both me and my wife working those long hours.

When my daughter was looking for a modern muscle car it was between the Camaro SS, Mustang GT and Challenger 392. She test drove all three cars and decided on finding a Challenger online. Eventually after a year a leftover 2012 in the color combo she wanted was discounted $10k from Landmark Dodge in Morrow GA 700 miles away.

Last April 2013 the car was delivered. She saved and saved and yes saved and got the car of her dreams with a V8. Blue with silver stripes and its a true touring car.

So now you have the V6 and want some more performance. Get another job and pay the car off. Save for a V8. Sacrifice and waiting are two very important attributes in getting the car you really want not the one you settle on.
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