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Old 12-02-2013, 08:40 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by wakespeak View Post
Come on any weight reduction affects fuel economy. GM spent millions on weight reduction programs, as have everyone else. Reducing weight via unsprung components is much more interesting to me in terms of its affect on the vehicle dynamics.

Does the Camaro need a 2-3 mpg increase? No. GM doesn't sell enough of them to affect CAFE ratings significantly. Does the Camaro need reasonable fuel economy? Yes. I mean 16-17 ish for the V8 city, around 20 combined. The Camaro won't be sold in numbers nor should it - its a niche product with good margins if it doesn't get watered down.

I hope Chevy continues to focus on VIR and Nuremburgh for the Camaro.

Now could Chevy come out with a product like the Subaru FRS? Yeah great, I am interested, but don't split the Camaro program to do it. Too many compromises.
Take a look at the NEW and IMPROVED CAFE standards brought to you by our leaders in Washington. You will notice that each car has it's own specific FE requirements based on the "footprint" size of the car. The Camaro needs to gain 6 mpg AVERAGE in the next few years. No loner can the low volume Camaro be covered by the higher volume cars.
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Old 12-03-2013, 10:41 AM   #52
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Take a look at the NEW and IMPROVED CAFE standards brought to you by our leaders in Washington. You will notice that each car has it's own specific FE requirements based on the "footprint" size of the car. The Camaro needs to gain 6 mpg AVERAGE in the next few years. No loner can the low volume Camaro be covered by the higher volume cars.

Be careful mentioning the government. It get's people riled up around here.
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Old 12-03-2013, 11:52 AM   #53
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Take a look at the NEW and IMPROVED CAFE standards brought to you by our leaders in Washington. You will notice that each car has it's own specific FE requirements based on the "footprint" size of the car. The Camaro needs to gain 6 mpg AVERAGE in the next few years. No loner can the low volume Camaro be covered by the higher volume cars.
Good point - I took a look in more detail at the 2011 changes. There is still averaging from what I see in the 2011 changes - its just now based on footprint derived mpg per model instead of the actual mpg of the car. Correct?

A high mpg vehicle can still offset a lower one, but the affect is diminished. That is, small cars with really high mpg's don't factor in directly, only the mpg for their footprint. So the 50 mpg hybrid may only provide a 36 mpg contribution to the average calculation.

That takes care of the fleet mpg and fine at the fleet level.

The second component will the impact of the footprint in terms of a gas guzzler tax. It may be difficult for GM to hurdle this one with the Gen6. Customers may have to pay the gas guzzler tax or an imputed fine incurred by GM. Fine by me as long as the car is worth it.

Although the MPG requirements per footprint go up in 2016, there seems room for a V-8 Camaro, Mustang, or Challenger. We just might be paying a higher price for them than we do now. Eventually that may price them out of the market for good as Oppenheiser said. Personally I wouldn't mind having a Tesla and a Camaro to balance my own family average fuel economy .
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:25 PM   #54
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As most of us know Ford has announced they are unveiling the 6th gen mustang in 6 major cities on December 5, 2013---------I figured to rain on Fords parade should GM release something about the 6th gen Camaro to steal the excitement over the 6th gen mustang??

I Think that Gm needs to show a teaser shot or give us something on the 6th gen to get the enthusiast response and feedback......
I think I heard the 6th Gen pictures will be released early around late summer. Probably to attempt to thwart some 2015 Mustangs sales.
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Old 12-06-2013, 08:35 PM   #55
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I think I heard the 6th Gen pictures will be released early around late summer. Probably to attempt to thwart some 2015 Mustangs sales.
...I would safely say do not wager on that....we <GM> are doing things right....there is no gain to be achieved from an early promo release at this time.
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Old 12-06-2013, 09:46 PM   #56
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...I would safely say do not wager on that....we <GM> are doing things right....there is no gain to be achieved from an early promo release at this time.
I don't quite get that, while I agree Chevy will wait and release information when it's ready, I do think there would be something to be gained from stealing some of the new Mustangs thunder even if it was with very minor stuff.
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Old 12-06-2013, 10:20 PM   #57
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I don't quite get that, while I agree Chevy will wait and release information when it's ready, I do think there would be something to be gained from stealing some of the new Mustangs thunder even if it was with very minor stuff.
...for what cause would we gain any ground in an attempt to steal Ford's thunder in the release of what the car will look like as you suggest? I see nothing. They are are only showing model pics and giving no real details. So what are they providing...just a look see of the outside. Oh, IRS, and some other generic mundane info also is concluded. It's a prom queen in a bathing suit right now.
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