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Old 08-27-2013, 03:51 PM   #1
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ATS vs 2016 camaro

was hoping Fbodfather might throw us a nugget but I wander dimensions wise how close the 2016 will be to the current ATS coupe?
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Old 08-27-2013, 04:15 PM   #2
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One would think that the 6th gen should be about the same size, if not smaller. Since the ATS is a luxury car when compared to the Camaro. Luxury = more interior space. However, aren't there two different Alpha platforms? IIRC there is an Alpha+ platform which I believe is larger. SO that means the Camaro could be but on the Alpha+.
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Old 08-27-2013, 07:03 PM   #3
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In person the ATS is a pretty small looking car. I don't think I'd want the next Camaro to be smaller than that, but I do feel being smaller than the 5th gen is just fine.

There is an Alpha long wheel base and an Alpha short wheel base which the ATS rides on. I'm hoping for the SWB version since it will be the lighter version.
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Old 08-27-2013, 07:15 PM   #4
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is the alpha lwb for the cts? and what else would it be used for?
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Old 08-27-2013, 09:13 PM   #5
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The ats is a really nice car. I drove both the 2.5 and the 2.0T. Whle I wished for more tq in the 2.0T its chassis is superb. It actually handled small road imperfections better than the larger cts, and it steering and cornering where better as well. It will make a great platform for the next Camaro.
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Old 08-27-2013, 10:12 PM   #6
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is the alpha lwb for the cts? and what else would it be used for?
Yep, its in the new CTS. Not sure what else.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:09 PM   #7
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The choice to put Camaro on Alpha LWB instead of plain ol' Alpha would imply keeping the Camaro the same overall length as it is or possibly enlarging it.

I have no idea what they'll do, but it's worth noting that there have been rumors of the next Camaro downsizing a bit (not enlarging). No idea whether such rumors have any merit. There have also been reports (credibility unknown) that the new Mustang is downsizing SUBSTANTIALLY, with some reports claiming an overall length in the 173"-178" range. Thus, the next Mustang could be slightly smaller than an ATS.The reasons for such a move reportedly are: (1) weight reduction; (2) smaller vehicles more suited to international sales. Not to say that GM should or shouldn't go in the same direction, but the Mustang's direction can't be totally ignored either.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:15 PM   #8
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I am pretty sure he is not allowed to talk about future product at all.
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Old 08-28-2013, 09:34 PM   #9
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honestly the spy shots of the new stang look like the car is anemic, if it is between the size of the current 5th gen and the new stang I am good with that. just give it a healthy torq and I am game!
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Old 08-28-2013, 09:44 PM   #10
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was hoping Fbodfather might throw us a nugget but I wander dimensions wise how close the 2016 will be to the current ATS coupe?
Well technically there won't be an ATS Coupe until I think next year.

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One would think that the 6th gen should be about the same size, if not smaller. Since the ATS is a luxury car when compared to the Camaro. Luxury = more interior space. However, aren't there two different Alpha platforms? IIRC there is an Alpha+ platform which I believe is larger. SO that means the Camaro could be but on the Alpha+.
Camaro's probably going on SWB Alpha.

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is the alpha lwb for the cts? and what else would it be used for?
Yep.

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I am pretty sure he is not allowed to talk about future product at all.
Yep.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:14 PM   #11
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I'm pretty sure there is no explicitly short or long wheelbase Alpha platform. It should be able to scale to somewhere in the middle, if necessary.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:21 PM   #12
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Which platform is the SS sedan based on. It's possible the Camaro becomes a coupe version of that car.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:39 PM   #13
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The ATS is a phenominal car. blast to drive the t version. It looks small but once in side it feels spacious...atleast for me a proportional 6 foot tall guy.

Last i read there was 2 versions of the chassis. And we dont know if there will be a gen II of one these versions built for next gen gm cars...kind of like how the 5 th gen camaro is on the second interation of the chassis it is on.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:45 PM   #14
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Which platform is the SS sedan based on. It's possible the Camaro becomes a coupe version of that car.
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Last i read there was 2 versions of the chassis. And we dont know if there will be a gen II of one these versions built for next gen gm cars...kind of like how the 5 th gen camaro is on the second interation of the chassis it is on.
Right, and the SS sedan is bascially the third iteration of that chassis (Commodore VE/G8 were Zeta 1, Camaro is Zeta 1.5 and Commodore VF/SS are Zeta 2). I'd guess that if there's a second-gen SS sedan, it'd be built on LWB Alpha (like the new CTS).
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:58 PM   #15
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I'm pretty sure there is no explicitly short or long wheelbase Alpha platform. It should be able to scale to somewhere in the middle, if necessary.
It's scaleable to some degree but there is indeed a SWB Alpha and LWB Alpha.
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Old 08-29-2013, 01:33 PM   #16
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Wish there were more threads like these with actual information and honest debate...


I encourage all car fans to test drive the ats...it really is a nicely done car
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Old 08-31-2013, 08:19 PM   #17
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I have an ATS now, bought it as a way of previewing the next Camaro. So far I've been impressed.
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Old 08-31-2013, 09:17 PM   #18
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I have an ATS now, bought it as a way of previewing the next Camaro. So far I've been impressed.
I usually do the same thing, testing out new platforms until the halo model comes out. When I get bored with them, I dramatically crash them and sell videos of the explosions to movie studios. When my insurance goes up, I buy out the insurance company and set my own rates. It's good being a multi-billionaire.
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Old 09-02-2013, 07:37 PM   #19
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Wish there were more threads like these with actual information and honest debate...


I encourage all car fans to test drive the ats...it really is a nicely done car
Definitely make a point of doing this in order to put things in perspective and get a handle on how a 6th Gen might feel. I think anyone who takes the time to do this will be very impressed!
I drove a loaded AWD 3.6 a couple of weeks before heading down to Indy for the gathering and my impressions are thus:
- handling and response to steering inputs are fantastic. Agile and athletic with lightning-like reflexes. The lighter weight stands out front and center. Responsiveness is definitely comparable to my '10 CTS-V.
- ride is superb with the MRC. Definitely a worthwhile investment (IMHO) if it is an option on the 6th Gen.
- front seat comfort and room is excellent! No complaints as far as the standard seats are concerned (and I'm very, very critical of run-of-the-mill standard GM seating.) These seats are great!
-rear seat - fuggedaboutit! The ATS may as well be a coupe (visibility out back ain't great either). I'm over 6' and it was a PITA to get in and out of the back seat. The problem is getting your head (if you are a tall person) tucked under the roofline during ingress. Egress is just as challenging. However, once you've managed to shoehorn yourself into the back seat, the room isn't all that bad. If there's a person in the seat in front of you, they may have to move it up a bit. (so what else is new?) Tall folks may have to keep their heads down in the back, but that's par for the course in a 5th Gen as well!
-power is ample with the 3.6. No huge raves, but I'm sure most will find the power level to be a bit more than adequate for everyday driving (my viewpoint may be somewhat skewed, coming from a CTS-V). However, I could easily see the 420 HP TT 3.6 from the 2014 CTS V-Sport as an uplevel powertrain option on this SWB Alpha platform. Having that option available would just be so sweet in this car! (ATS-V?)
- the car had a whole whack of warning notifications (optional, thank goodness) that I found somewhat disturbing... the seat vibrates if someone comes up beside you... don't need it and don't like it 'cuz I like to use my mirrors and those seat vibrations are intrusive. If there's a car on your right, the right side of the seat vibrates - similar if there's a car on the left.
Hopefully you don't get too close to the car in front of you, otherwise the DIC will warn you of an impending collision... good stuff if you don't like to focus on your surroundings when you are driving!!
So all in all, a great package from a performance perspective. I'm very confident that GM can fine tune the road feel on this platform to the wants and needs demanded by the Camaro market (and blow the the new Mustang out of the water at all levels!)

Things are lookin' great from where I sit!

Best regards,

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Old 09-03-2013, 05:13 PM   #20
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Things are lookin' great from where I sit!

Best regards,

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thanks for the feed back, got me excited for the future of camaro!
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Old 09-03-2013, 06:44 PM   #21
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The ATS is an outstanding car. Agree with the comments. That being said, that won't necessarily make it a great Camaro.

Disagree on the size. The ATS is a small car. Keep in mind it is the same size as a Chevy Cruze and for all the people on here going "give us the ATS" as the platform for the NG Camaro, you are also saying, "give me a car the size of the Chevy Cruze".

I may be wrong on this point, but I don't want a small Camaro.

I've made the Comparison of our Audi S4 vs. the ATS. The Audi weighs a good 300 plus pounds more and if I'm picking, I'm picking the Audi. Doesn't mean that's what works for everyone, but for me I'd rather have the 3.0T and full time AWD and a slightly bigger car. Audi has reasonable rear seat accommodations. The ATS is at best a 2+2. Audi has a bigger trunk roomier and front seat space. And a Cruze has better rear seat and trunk space than the ATS. And agree those aren't attributes people are looking for in a Camaro, but GM has notoriously and famously packaged cars big on the outside and small on the inside. Look at the CTS Coupe. No front seat head room and a joke in the rear seat area. The took a reasonably roomy sedan and made it pretty bad if you ever intend more than a 12 year old to sit in the back seats. I love that car but it is a complete compromise to achieve the styling.

Now some will take a lighter Camaro no matter how small it is. That model doesn't work for me.

I want a Camaro off of a mid size platform, not a compact. JMO
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:29 PM   #22
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The ATS is an outstanding car. Agree with the comments. That being said, that won't necessarily make it a great Camaro.

Disagree on the size. The ATS is a small car. Keep in mind it is the same size as a Chevy Cruze and for all the people on here going "give us the ATS" as the platform for the NG Camaro, you are also saying, "give me a car the size of the Chevy Cruze".

I may be wrong on this point, but I don't want a small Camaro.

I've made the Comparison of our Audi S4 vs. the ATS. The Audi weighs a good 300 plus pounds more and if I'm picking, I'm picking the Audi. Doesn't mean that's what works for everyone, but for me I'd rather have the 3.0T and full time AWD and a slightly bigger car. Audi has reasonable rear seat accommodations. The ATS is at best a 2+2. Audi has a bigger trunk roomier and front seat space. And a Cruze has better rear seat and trunk space than the ATS. And agree those aren't attributes people are looking for in a Camaro, but GM has notoriously and famously packaged cars big on the outside and small on the inside. Look at the CTS Coupe. No front seat head room and a joke in the rear seat area. The took a reasonably roomy sedan and made it pretty bad if you ever intend more than a 12 year old to sit in the back seats. I love that car but it is a complete compromise to achieve the styling.

Now some will take a lighter Camaro no matter how small it is. That model doesn't work for me.

I want a Camaro off of a mid size platform, not a compact. JMO
Great analysis!
...and I agree wholeheartedly with your comments about the ATS - it is space and room challenged - without a doubt! Transforming it into a coupe would certainly put it into the 2+2 category.
So what if... the 6th Gen was based on the ATS platform and what if... it showed up as a 2+2? I don't think that would necessarily be a bad thing. The 6th Gen Camaro will need to come out fighting the new Mustang - which will of course be smaller and lighter than the current model - and given what Ford has shown with respect to the power levels they can achieve through the technology of their smaller, but still powerful (Ecoboost) engines, Camaro needs to come out in fighting trim. Camaro has always been thought of pretty much as a 2+2. Who knows what the new Mustang will weigh in at, but I'm of the opinion that whatever GM can do to bring the 6th Gen to market in as light a form as possible is a very important factor. Fuel economy ratings are looming large because of CAFE.
But wait! GM also has an option to think about (or they've already thought about it). For those who would like a "larger" Camaro, then the car could be based on the "stretched" Alpha (a.k.a. CTS), which is a whole lot roomier than the ATS.
I don't know what the performance/fuel economy penalty might equate to by using the larger Alpha platform for Camaro , but I feel that GM must put their best foot forward and nail it, right out of the gate, in terms of weight reduction which directly impacts fuel economy and performance.
What does it say about weight etc. if the ATS-V ends up with the 420 HP TT 3.6 and the 3rd Gen CTS-V ends up with some form of the LT1 V8?
Decisions, decisions...

Best regards,

Elie
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:41 PM   #23
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But wait! GM also has an option to think about (or they've already thought about it). For those who would like a "larger" Camaro, then the car could be based on the "stretched" Alpha (a.k.a. CTS), which is a whole lot roomier than the ATS.
I, personally, am of the mindset that the Camaro needs to be smaller and lighter. That said, I also think there could be room to slot an additional, larger, 5 seat coupe above Camaro.
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Old 09-04-2013, 06:29 AM   #24
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I currently own both, a 2013 ATS Luxury package 2.0L turbo AWD, and let me tell you it's not even remotely close to being a Camaro. If GM tries to make the new gen Camaro similar to the ATS their gonna miss the boat really hard. Don't get me wrong my ATS is a nice car, and has some mechanical and undercarriage similarities but it's not a camaro, a new gen camaro and will never be compatible, well I hope not.
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:24 AM   #25
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I currently own both, a 2013 ATS Luxury package 2.0L turbo AWD, and let me tell you it's not even remotely close to being a Camaro. If GM tries to make the new gen Camaro similar to the ATS their gonna miss the boat really hard. Don't get me wrong my ATS is a nice car, and has some mechanical and undercarriage similarities but it's not a camaro, a new gen camaro and will never be compatible, well I hope not.
Well it's going on the same platform so....
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