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Old 06-28-2013, 03:27 PM   #701
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Originally Posted by 2010-1SS-IBM View Post
Would rather see a turbo 8 option than a turbo 4 option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by revychevy View Post
I agree, still can't figure why no one will compare turbo V6 to turbo 4 on this thread. Any performance (HP and TQ) you get from FI of a 4 banger, you can get with FI V6 or FI V8.
Forgive me if I miss-understand, but I think the appropriate response to these comments is "DUH".

The whole point is to create an efficient and powerful engine. Not too win HP wars. Of course anyone that cares about power will want a turbo V6 or turbo V8 over a turbo 4.....but if that person's budget doesn't allow for that then they will be glad to see an option for them that isn't completely boring to drive either.

Why would we compare a T8 or a T6 to a T4?

Sorry I just don't understand your comments I guess.
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Old 06-28-2013, 04:56 PM   #702
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well I have a twin turbo 8, and I love it...yoot yoot
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Old 06-28-2013, 05:10 PM   #703
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I thought they have a 4cyl Camaro. Isn't called an L99?
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Old 06-28-2013, 05:33 PM   #704
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I would say several reasons ( though these are not for me )

1 - cheaper than a V8
2 - better fuel economy
3 - not everybody modifies their car for racing, some people like low/mild power
4 - why drive a Prius when you could drive something with similar fuel economy and the looks of a Camaro?

Does not mean I think like that.
But some people do. And if there is a market for it, why not make a car for it?
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:01 PM   #705
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so they can VTEC it yo. so vtec can kick in, because people who talk about vtec are COMPELTELY AWARE that almost every car since 2000 that has fuel injection effectively has "vtec"

*sarcasm
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Old 06-29-2013, 04:30 AM   #706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
Forgive me if I miss-understand, but I think the appropriate response to these comments is "DUH".

The whole point is to create an efficient and powerful engine. Not too win HP wars. Of course anyone that cares about power will want a turbo V6 or turbo V8 over a turbo 4.....but if that person's budget doesn't allow for that then they will be glad to see an option for them that isn't completely boring to drive either.

Why would we compare a T8 or a T6 to a T4?

Sorry I just don't understand your comments I guess.
Many here are comparing high end turbo 4s to NA v6 in terms of HP and TQ. THAT is what I'm talking about. If you are just after gas mileage, how did you say it? Duh. Buy a Prius or a turbo diesel Cruze. With around 48 mpg. You don't get to compare FI to NA then when someone points out you can mod anything, or slap a turbocharger on a V6 then claim it's only to create a efficient engine.
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Old 06-29-2013, 07:42 AM   #707
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so they can VTEC it yo. so vtec can kick in, because people who talk about vtec are COMPELTELY AWARE that almost every car since 2000 that has fuel injection effectively has "vtec"

*sarcasm
VTEC is variable valve timing, not fuel injection.
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Old 06-30-2013, 04:39 AM   #708
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VTEC is variable valve timing, not fuel injection.
He is correct. Most cars have variable valve timing. However there has not been a production carbed vehicle since 1991, so not sure why he was tying fuel injection into variable timing.
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Old 06-30-2013, 06:22 AM   #709
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I want a 4 cylinder inline transverse mounted engine powering the front wheels in the Gen 6 Camaro as the only engine choice, just to piss some of you guys off
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Old 06-30-2013, 07:23 AM   #710
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Originally Posted by aggieguy13 View Post
so they can VTEC it yo. so vtec can kick in, because people who talk about vtec are COMPELTELY AWARE that almost every car since 2000 that has fuel injection effectively has "vtec"

*sarcasm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 3 View Post
VTEC is variable valve timing, not fuel injection.
I'm not a Honda guy but VTEC is a LOT more than variable valve timing. For it's day, VTEC was one of the most incredible engine advances for a tiny little 4 banger since the overhead cam. It varies timing yes, but also has two totally separate cam profiles. The "VTEC kicked in yo!" people are mostly idiots but VTEC remains much more technologically advanced than other variable valve timing systems outside of extremely high end cars.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010-1SS-IBM View Post
Would rather see a turbo 8 option than a turbo 4 option.
Duh? hahaa

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Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
This thread just keeps on and keeps on lol.

It should be no shock to anyone here that a turbo 4 could run with or outrun a V6. Performance oriented turbo 4 engines these days are making 280 - 320 HP and that same amount in torque and also makes that torque at low rpms.

Compare that to a V6 which makes plenty of HP 323HP, but just 278 TQ and you can easily see how the turbo 4 could be quicker.

Throw a tune on the turbo 4 and suddenly your looking at TQ numbers closer to 400.

Yes right now the rumor mill seems to think the Mustang base car will be the V6, with the T4 being an optional engine which likely will have more torque, and better highway gas mileage.

I'd guess that GM is doing the same.
Yup. As long as there is always a bad a$$ v-8 performer to keep the spirit of this car alive who cares how many different engines they offer trying to get more sales? More sales equals never having to suffer through another hiatus like between 4th and 5th gens.
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Old 06-30-2013, 07:25 AM   #711
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I want a 4 cylinder inline transverse mounted engine powering the front wheels in the Gen 6 Camaro as the only engine choice, just to piss some of you guys off
Sounds good! Lets have one in front and one in back!
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Old 06-30-2013, 05:07 PM   #712
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Quote:
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4 - why drive a Prius when you could drive something with similar fuel economy and the looks of a Camaro?
I have reminded my friends with a V6 Accord and a V6 Camry that I get about the same MPG as they do. And absolutely nobody turns their head when they drive by.

(actually I think my highway is a bit better, not EPA but actual)

BRING THE ENGINE CHOICES ON!
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Old 06-30-2013, 05:39 PM   #713
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The V6 owners are the ones wanting a 4 banger. Don't let it effect you.
I don't understand why V8 owners have to be such total pricks about it.
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Old 07-02-2013, 10:32 AM   #714
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Originally Posted by KMPrenger View Post
Forgive me if I miss-understand, but I think the appropriate response to these comments is "DUH".

The whole point is to create an efficient and powerful engine. Not too win HP wars. Of course anyone that cares about power will want a turbo V6 or turbo V8 over a turbo 4.....but if that person's budget doesn't allow for that then they will be glad to see an option for them that isn't completely boring to drive either.

Why would we compare a T8 or a T6 to a T4?

Sorry I just don't understand your comments I guess.
And I don't understand yours. You assume the T4 is going to cost less than our current V6 or be more fuel efficient, or both. Big assumption. It's probably only being offered because of Europe's displacement regulations. My guess is it will cost more and be pretty similar to the current V6 in MPG's and perform slightly worse than the current V6.
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:02 AM   #715
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perform slightly worse than the current V6.
Probs not this. Remember that the new chassis is going to be much lighter.

It won't be my style but I think a T4 would knock it out of the park, man.

Like I said before, options options options = sales sales sales = never another hiatus.
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:00 PM   #716
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Throw a tune on the turbo 4 and suddenly your looking at TQ numbers closer to 400.
For 400-ish numbers (and even 350's), you're better off with a little more displacement combined with a little less boost and a safer tune. Some years ago, Subaru and Mitsubishi went in opposite directions on this, and for all of those times where you aren't on boost (think about being caught sub-2000 rpm in 3rd gear or higher) the car will be more responsive with the larger, lower boost combination.

Seems to me that acceptability of a smallish displacement engine in a ponycar is predicated upon it having at least 'good' throttle response under as wide a variety driving conditions as reasonably achievable. Trust me on this - I know what even 2.5L off-boost in the wrong gear in a 3400-ish lb car feels like, and it's no better than "barely adequate for a daily driver or winter beater".



Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010-1SS-IBM View Post
Would rather see a turbo 8 option
That much of it would be a good topic starter for wondering about how a future ZL1 would be configured, but is irrelevant here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by revychevy View Post
I agree, still can't figure why no one will compare turbo V6 to turbo 4 on this thread. Any performance (HP and TQ) you get from FI of a 4 banger, you can get with FI V6 or FI V8.
It doesn't make sense to compare engines that would not compete against each other. There is no common ground for consensus, and it would become just another big waste of free electrons (just like V8 vs V6 and MT vs AT already are).

Remember that the only reason for discussing turbos here at all is because NA fours have even less chance of being found acceptable.


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Old 07-02-2013, 04:07 PM   #717
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And I don't understand yours. You assume the T4 is going to cost less than our current V6 or be more fuel efficient, or both. Big assumption. It's probably only being offered because of Europe's displacement regulations. My guess is it will cost more and be pretty similar to the current V6 in MPG's and perform slightly worse than the current V6.
I never once stated it would cost less than the V6. You are putting words in my mouth.

In fact I believe if anything, the T4 will be an added cost option over the V6. I feel that is more likely. I do feel though that the T4 could be slightly more efficently. I feel that way b/c my wife currently drives a turbo 4 small/midsize SUV and she can get fantastic mileage with it.

But I agree that difference would be minimal. Look...I don't want to buy a turbo 4. I'm just not AGAINST GM offering it. If the ditch the V6, then I will be dissapointed, but if the T4 is made powerful enough to be faster than the current V6, then I'll at least understand why they would ditch the V6 option.



Quote:
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For 400-ish numbers (and even 350's), you're better off with a little more displacement combined with a little less boost and a safer tune. Some years ago, Subaru and Mitsubishi went in opposite directions on this, and for all of those times where you aren't on boost (think about being caught sub-2000 rpm in 3rd gear or higher) the car will be more responsive with the larger, lower boost combination.

Seems to me that acceptability of a smallish displacement engine in a ponycar is predicated upon it having at least 'good' throttle response under as wide a variety driving conditions as reasonably achievable. Trust me on this - I know what even 2.5L off-boost in the wrong gear in a 3400-ish lb car feels like, and it's no better than "barely adequate for a daily driver or winter beater".

Norm
I agree. I think 350TQ is still very safe and usable on a 2.0 turbo engine...and they can go higher. But I wouldn't want that if it never hit any boost until further into the rpm range.
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Old 07-02-2013, 04:51 PM   #718
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Probs not this. Remember that the new chassis is going to be much lighter.

It won't be my style but I think a T4 would knock it out of the park, man.

Like I said before, options options options = sales sales sales = never another hiatus.
I meant the V6 engine, not the entire car. The current V6 engine is probably better performing than the T4 engine that they will put in it. We don't even know if the T4 will get better gas mileage. It's more than likely that the T4 will be a complete downgrade from the current V6 engine. Which is the reason why I think it's silly to put the T4 in it.

And I'm all for options if they are things customers are asking for. I'm pretty sure Chevy customers didn't ask for a more expensive, less powerful base engine. It feels like they are trying to "teach" the car buying public what kind of car to buy, and that usually doesn't end up with more sales for the car manufacturers.
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Old 07-02-2013, 05:18 PM   #719
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The T-4 can almost certainly be tuned to produce better fuel economy in the EPA drive cycles. But like they say, "your mileage may vary" . . . and it does.

Customer preferences and wants count for less than meeting mandated requirements, which puts Chevy and all the rest in the position of being middlemen between the customer and the regulators. I don't envy the advertising guys who have to spin what somebody else thinks we're all supposed to want into being a top-priority attraction for each and every one of us in our purchase decisions.


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Old 07-04-2013, 12:12 AM   #720
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I have reminded my friends with a V6 Accord and a V6 Camry that I get about the same MPG as they do. And absolutely nobody turns their head when they drive by.

(actually I think my highway is a bit better, not EPA but actual)

BRING THE ENGINE CHOICES ON!
Yeah I mean think about it, drive something bad ass as a Camaro and get the gas mileage of a prius, but don't drive around a bitch car. Again not what I would choose but hell if you need good gas mileage why not?
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:51 PM   #721
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When the next iteration of the GM HF V6 hits, it will most likely be packing 330-340 hp. The most a stock factory GM turbo 4 is pushing right now is 290-300.

I do see the T-4 outperforming the V6 in the quarter if they get Alpha light enough due to the better torque curve. But they will not be able to match the real world FE of the V6, nor the numbers on paper which is what sells cars.
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Old 07-07-2013, 07:09 PM   #722
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That's what I'm really hoping to see. A 330 - 340HP V6 with more torque than the current LFX (278TQ)....maybe around 290 TQ?

Then mod that sucker to 360+ HP and 310 or so TQ and call it a day lol. That in a 3,400lb machine and I'd be very satisfied. No need for me to be in an SS other than the sound
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Old 07-28-2013, 06:36 PM   #723
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nothing wrong with a little 4 cylinder power, but I personally can't imagine it with the camaro
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Old 07-28-2013, 07:11 PM   #724
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nothing wrong with a little 4 cylinder power, but I personally can't imagine it with the camaro
Think about this:

You befriend Clark Kent, Superman and you two become good friends. The things he can do blow you away. The two of you go golfing and afterward hit the showers. All of a sudden you realize he suffers from the condition micro penis.

Same thing, you pop the hood to find a 4cyl.? You will never look at the car the same again.

GM has to really think about this before it go's stupid. There is no fix to stupid
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Old 07-28-2013, 08:39 PM   #725
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Think about this:

You befriend Clark Kent, Superman and you two become good friends. The things he can do blow you away. The two of you go golfing and afterward hit the showers. All of a sudden you realize he suffers from the condition micro penis.

Same thing, you pop the hood to find a 4cyl.? You will never look at the car the same again.

GM has to really think about this before it go's stupid. There is no fix to stupid
Speaking of that, why you checking guys out in the shower?
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