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Old 05-09-2013, 12:44 AM   #673
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I'm hoping they love these cars as much as us (I'm sure Fbodfather and the Camaro crew that just gave us a 500 HP Z/28 do). You feel that it will end relatively soon (6th gen) and I think it will continue. You may call me naive, but you are just guessing. One could say you are cynical. I will wait and see. Hopefully with a Z/28 in my driveway. Here's one for ya-- you probably never thought the Camaro would come back after 2002 did ya? With 426 HP no less.

Keep the faith.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:48 AM   #674
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Originally Posted by revychevy View Post
I'm hoping they love these cars as much as us (I'm sure Fbodfather and the Camaro crew that just gave us a 500 HP Z/28 do). You feel that it will end relatively soon (6th gen) and I think it will continue. You may call me naive, but you are just guessing. One could say you are cynical. I will wait and see. Hopefully with a Z/28 in my driveway. Here's one for ya-- you probably never thought the Camaro would come back after 2002 did ya? With 426 HP no less.

Keep the faith.
I think AFTER the 6th gen, it'll end and may dwindle down during 3 yrs after 6th gen is in place.

But hey! I hope youre right and yes I am a little cynical. But realistically, in 2025, 400HP naturally aspirated will be unheard of. It will all come from boost. Wonder how many horses that LSA ZL-1 would have had it not had the S/C on top of it? Its not a bad thing using boost. Its getting small engines up to the performance of larger ones and unless you put your foot in them, they'll do excellent at the pump. THIS is where its going.

Gas guzzler taxes will end because they wont produce anything needing it. Many ppl WANT hundreds of HP in their cars getting 50-60mpg. They DONT CARE how its done. But mostly, some ppl dont care about HP vs mpgs. They're tired of handing money over at the pump. More and more are getting to this point. Car manufacturers produce for the masses. Sure, they offer a car for the small % to obtain but overall....
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:05 PM   #675
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I know folks may think I'm crazy but I would love to see a very lite weight 6th Gen with a 2.0L turdbo pushing 320-340hp.... I like odd-ball combos which is why I had a 267ci dual carb set-up in my Chevelle for about 10 years... Most would laugh at a 267ci V-8 in a Chevelle but I thought it was cool..
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Old 05-11-2013, 11:20 AM   #676
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I know folks may think I'm crazy but I would love to see a very lite weight 6th Gen with a 2.0L turdbo pushing 320-340hp.... I like odd-ball combos which is why I had a 267ci dual carb set-up in my Chevelle for about 10 years... Most would laugh at a 267ci V-8 in a Chevelle but I thought it was cool..

That's what modding is for. I'm all for people swapping out their V8s and whatnot and putting in the 2.0 L 4 banger. I just don't think it should come from the factory. You can always upgrade or even downgrade these cars as the mood strikes you. If you like it in your Chevelle, man do your thing. More power to ya.
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Old 05-13-2013, 02:44 PM   #677
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I think that they are also considering europe as a market for the camaro and in Europe there is an annual tax mainly based on the cid(cmc) that beeing said it has to be 4 banger and tiny 2 liter. Also in Europe the gas price is a fair big amount double than the price in US so it has to be a high mpg car. In some countrys in Europe the annual tax is approx 2500$ or probably more for the 376 CID(6162CMC)!

P.S. I heard that they are trying to introduce somwhat of a tax like this in USA....maybe GM knows something about it....
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Old 05-13-2013, 08:53 PM   #678
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I know folks may think I'm crazy but I would love to see a very lite weight 6th Gen with a 2.0L turdbo pushing 320-340hp.... I like odd-ball combos which is why I had a 267ci dual carb set-up in my Chevelle for about 10 years... Most would laugh at a 267ci V-8 in a Chevelle but I thought it was cool..
320 to 340 from a 2.0T would take a big leap in the engine cost and internals. I think 300 is pretty close to the top in the near term.

But for those so dead set against a 4 cylinder............. 2014 Audi S3, 298 HP 2.0T with a nice 0 - 60 of 4.6 seconds. Pretty much running with an SS at that point. Granted a transverse FWD architecture with AWD but 3150 pounds and runs like stink.

So that would bring us back to simply the feel and sound rather than the performance of the V8 being the question at hand.
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:09 PM   #679
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Great 4 cyl camaro's what's next electric and front wheel drive versions.
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Old 05-18-2013, 09:40 AM   #680
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320 to 340 from a 2.0T would take a big leap in the engine cost and internals. I think 300 is pretty close to the top in the near term.

But for those so dead set against a 4 cylinder............. 2014 Audi S3, 298 HP 2.0T with a nice 0 - 60 of 4.6 seconds. Pretty much running with an SS at that point. Granted a transverse FWD architecture with AWD but 3150 pounds and runs like stink.

So that would bring us back to simply the feel and sound rather than the performance of the V8 being the question at hand.
The Audi RS 3 Sportback. Has a turbo 2.5-liter five-cylinder engine mated to a seven-speed S Tronic dual-clutch transmission packing 340 horsepower and 331 pound-feet of torque. It's good for a 0-60 mph run of just 4.6 seconds too. It also costs around $68,000. The S3 you mentioned (the seven speed dual clutch S Tronic model runs 0-60 around 4.9 -- very fast but also a premium hatchback running around 40 grand and competing with Mercedes.

Are you saying you want the Camaro to become a premium Hatchback? That sure ain't gonna be the entry level model. No way they could make and market a premium turbo 4 AND a V8. We might as well start comparing entry level V6 Camaros to Porsche GT3s.
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Old 05-18-2013, 10:21 AM   #681
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Why would anyone bawk at a 4cyl Camaro being added to the lineup if there's a demand? If it makes business sense and helps to keep the Camaro model in production, who cares? You can continue to buy your v8 and if someone wants to buy an entry level sporty Camaro at a cheaper price point, let 'em. Variation is the spice of life.
This.

If there is a demand, let them do it. If it allows them to keep making V8z, then DEMAND a 4 cyl. You don't have to buy it.

The top selling cars are 4 cyl. Why? Transportation.

So if the put a 4 cyl in. Who cares. The camaro belonds to GM. Not fans.they are in the business of selling cars. If it doesn't sell, they'll get rid of it.
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:34 PM   #682
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320 to 340 from a 2.0T would take a big leap in the engine cost and internals. I think 300 is pretty close to the top in the near term.

But for those so dead set against a 4 cylinder............. 2014 Audi S3, 298 HP 2.0T with a nice 0 - 60 of 4.6 seconds. Pretty much running with an SS at that point. Granted a transverse FWD architecture with AWD but 3150 pounds and runs like stink.

So that would bring us back to simply the feel and sound rather than the performance of the V8 being the question at hand.
320 - 340 HP is probably pushing it just a tad, but 320+ TQ is not.

Just look at the Saturn Sky Redline and the Cobalt Turbo SS. There was a factory tune you could purchase which put those things at nearly 300 HP and 320 TQ. Ford has turbo 4s in Europe pushing numbers like that, and the big rumor for a long while now is that the next Mustang will see a 300+ HP turbo.

So I see no problem getting to almost those power numbers you mentioned.

But the weight will almost surely be 3,300+ lbs if not closer to 3,400 for a 4 cylinder Camaro, and it won't have that ultra fancy 7 speed dual clutch transmission, so you won't be looking at sub 5 second 0 - 60 numbers, but you can bet it would be well under 6 seconds.

I'm not saying I'd buy one or not...just don't know, but saying it wouldn't be enjoyable to drive is just wrong. If it handled decently, it would be a hoot to drive I'm sure.
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:35 AM   #683
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If they start turning American muscle into 4 bangers I'm gonna find a new hobby
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Old 05-20-2013, 10:03 AM   #684
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I think that they are also considering europe as a market for the camaro and in Europe there is an annual tax mainly based on the cid(cmc) that beeing said it has to be 4 banger and tiny 2 liter. Also in Europe the gas price is a fair big amount double than the price in US so it has to be a high mpg car. In some countrys in Europe the annual tax is approx 2500$ or probably more for the 376 CID(6162CMC)!

P.S. I heard that they are trying to introduce somwhat of a tax like this in USA....maybe GM knows something about it....
The camaro is already available in Europe. All camaros that I saw while living in Germany were the top trim v8 models. In addition, while gas is taxed at a significantly higher rate to subsidize alternative energy, I did not need to drive nearly as much there as in the US. I actually paid much less for fuel there than here. I guess what I am getting at is the camaro is probably just as much of a niche market in Europe.
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Old 05-20-2013, 11:58 AM   #685
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If they start turning American muscle into 4 bangers I'm gonna find a new hobby
Agreed. If they turn it into a European 4 cylinder high revving gas sipping hybrid thingie, I might as well drive a Beemer, or a Honda or something.
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Old 05-21-2013, 05:26 PM   #686
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If they start turning American muscle into 4 bangers I'm gonna find a new hobby
They did that in the 80s. They were awful. Different era though.

Camaro and mustang.
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