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Old 02-18-2013, 02:04 PM   #26
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Yeah, these mechanical High-Pressure Fuel Pumps are a PITA. Too big and they flow too much fuel at idle and low RPMs. Too small and they don't flow enough at the high RPMs. It would be nice if they had two, one that had a valve that didn't open to the fuel rails until the RPMs were above 4000, otherwise it just recirculates the fuel. I think that would solve the problem for high HP demands.
Design it, patent it, and we'll go into business and sell that to car manufacturers for ridiculous amounts of money
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Old 02-18-2013, 02:21 PM   #27
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Design it, patent it, and we'll go into business and sell that to car manufacturers for ridiculous amounts of money
I'll leave that to the big guys because it would be expensive to develop. May have a better thing in the works for much cheaper, but it won't be my idea. Working on a way to port inject supplemental fuel at higher RPMs. It will have the advantage in that it will clean the valves, too (big problem with DI engines). Going to try to make it so you can also inject nitrous as well .
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:20 PM   #28
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Just curious...If the new Gen6 is smaller, lighter, handles better, etc., how would the hp/torq/0-60, etc. compare to the Gen5?...I've heard code numbers for other V-8's (LS7, whatever), what are we talking in c.i. or horsepower?...Will the LS3 or L99 be unchanged in the Gen6...

(Sort of burned out on the I-4 thing, so what about the "big-dog" engines that may go in the Gen6?)...Thanks...
Your best bet is to look into the new Gen-V small blocks that GM has developed. I'm sure there will be many variants, but the LT-1 in the new Corvette pumps out 450+hp/450+torque, with a torque curve similar to the LS7 up to about 4000 rpms...and dramatically increased fuel economy, too.

But...as long as your crystal ball is polished - you're guess is as good as mine!
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Old 02-18-2013, 03:27 PM   #29
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Ok...I'll bite...What the heck is an LT4?...lol...(sorry...lol)...(the short version will do)...lol

This is short...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LT_engine
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Old 02-18-2013, 04:36 PM   #30
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AFM on the 2014 stringray with have the option of turning on or off by the owner.
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Old 02-18-2013, 05:14 PM   #31
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The skinny is that they are pitting the LF3<3.6 L TT> against the LT1<naturally aspirated 6.2L>, and the LF3 against the LT1 with a supercharger (ala LT4, as mentioned previously, but not specified in the report by the same engine nomenclature) in the next Gen Cadillac's. Stay tuned.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:27 PM   #32
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Your best bet is to look into the new Gen-V small blocks that GM has developed. I'm sure there will be many variants, but the LT-1 in the new Corvette pumps out 450+hp/450+torque, with a torque curve similar to the LS7 up to about 4000 rpms...and dramatically increased fuel economy, too.

But...as long as your crystal ball is polished - you're guess is as good as mine!
By variants, perhaps you mean "options" or "choices" in the V-8 (s) ??
LT1 (with or without AFM, in either auto or manual trans)?, LT4 (Super-charged, turbo-charged)...Also, perhaps thinking incorrectly, that AFM is not "do-able" with some form of forced-induction..?

Just sayin', an option list for V-8 engines would be awesome, and right up Chevy's reputation for being able to interchange engines....(Perhaps crystal ball is getting a little foggy here)...lol

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Thanks, gives what they used to be...but those links for the LT1 sort of showed that using the old codes for engines doesn't mean much these days...lol...

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AFM on the 2014 stringray with have the option of turning on or off by the owner.
If true, that sounds like a definite "upgrade" from the current LS3/L99..

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The skinny is that they are pitting the LF3<3.6 L TT> against the LT1<naturally aspirated 6.2L>, and the LF3 against the LT1 with a supercharger (ala LT4, as mentioned previously, but not specified in the report by the same engine nomenclature) in the next Gen Cadillac's. Stay tuned.
Wondering again about Camaro V-8 options...would rather see them available as a choice from the beginning, instead of year-to-year assembly line change that would only be available for that particular year...
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Old 02-18-2013, 07:55 PM   #33
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LS3/L99..
Wondering again about Camaro V-8 options...would rather see them available as a choice from the beginning, instead of year-to-year assembly line change that would only be available for that particular year...
...but if one is a student of GM history, one would know they do not follow that approach you mentioned. They build engines, designate them for platforms/models, that are certified. Certification is a lenghty and time consuming process...thats' what GM does...guarantees their engines within a reasonable degree of cetainty. They do not deviate from that certification, until they come up with a new engine platform. In past history, these powerplants have been used for a predetermined service life. There is no yearly change, or upgrade, and this doctrine has been in place been. There is no reason they would change it. We have not seen what GM has in store with the DI Gen 5 motors. Cadillac and Corvette will unveil the next lineage, from there we shall follow. Stay tuned, and read on beyond C5 for info.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:05 PM   #34
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...but if one is a student of GM history, one would know they do not follow that approach you mentioned. They build engines, designate them for platforms/models, that are certified. Certification is a lenghty and time consuming process...thats' what GM does...guarantees their engines within a reasonable degree of cetainty. They do not deviate from that certification, until they come up with a new engine platform. In past history, these powerplants have been used for a predetermined service life. There is no yearly change, or upgrade, and this doctrine has been in place been. There is no reason they would change it. We have not seen what GM has in store with the DI Gen 5 motors. Cadillac and Corvette will unveil the next lineage, from there we shall follow. Stay tuned, and read on beyond C5 for info.
Not disagreeing with you on that...sure you're probably right...was just thinking of a comparison like the 60's...you could get a 350, or a 396 or whatever, all in the same year, all with different variations...Probably never see that again, but why not, for example, LT1 (standard)...LS3, LT4,or LS7 available as an option...

...These engines already exist, are "certified" or whatever...just sayin'...
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:24 PM   #35
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Not disagreeing with you on that...sure you're probably right...was just thinking of a comparison like the 60's...you could get a 350, or a 396 or whatever, all in the same year, all with different variations...Probably never see that again, but why not, for example, LT1 (standard)...LS3, LT4,or LS7 available as an option...

...These engines already exist, are "certified" or whatever...just sayin'...
...I hear ya!. I liked those times as well, lots of choices, ala carte or individual options, engines, performance options, appearance packages, 16 colors etc....but alas...those were the days...<as Archie Bunker said> A far gone memory of the kind only read about in the history books...
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:45 PM   #36
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By variants, perhaps you mean "options" or "choices" in the V-8 (s) ??
LT1 (with or without AFM, in either auto or manual trans)?, LT4 (Super-charged, turbo-charged)...Also, perhaps thinking incorrectly, that AFM is not "do-able" with some form of forced-induction..?

Just sayin', an option list for V-8 engines would be awesome, and right up Chevy's reputation for being able to interchange engines....(Perhaps crystal ball is getting a little foggy here)...lol
Just a year ago...AFM wasn't doable with manual transmissions....but they figured it out for the C7 Corvette. So...never say never, I guess is my point.

All I meant my "variants" was...when GM rolls over a new generation of V8...there are always different versions, for different applications...car engines, truck engines, FE engines, HO engines, blown engines, etc, etc....

May not have an a la carte list on the 6th-gen...in fact, my money is on definitely not...but we can't assume that the engine the 6th-gen Camaro get will be THE LT-1...could be a different variant, like how Chevy upgraded the LS1 to the LS6 to the LS2 to the LS3 within 6-8 years....
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:49 PM   #37
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1LE type suspension as stock.
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Old 02-18-2013, 08:53 PM   #38
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1LE type suspension as stock.
Question....

The 1LE suspension is rather stiff (not harsh...just stiff)...what if the new Mustang offered a cushy ride on the regular GT model and that won a lot of people over who were only looking for a V8...or looks?
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:10 AM   #39
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Question....

The 1LE suspension is rather stiff (not harsh...just stiff)...what if the new Mustang offered a cushy ride on the regular GT model and that won a lot of people over who were only looking for a V8...or looks?
By the time the 6th Gen comes to market it's likely the continued trickle down of MRC will come to the base V8 Camaro, at least as an option.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:30 AM   #40
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Now that's something I'd love. To activate AFM by flip of a switch and it wouldn't go back to 8 cyl until I hit the switch. That way you're guaranteed to save gas as a 4cyl ALL vehicles should be thic way. Activating and deactivating cylinders at will.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:41 AM   #41
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Now that's something I'd love. To activate AFM by flip of a switch and it wouldn't go back to 8 cyl until I hit the switch. That way you're guaranteed to save gas as a 4cyl ALL vehicles should be thic way. Activating and deactivating cylinders at will.
What if that switch was the cruise control? That seems the most reasonable way to do it to me. I drove one of the vettes that first had DOD and I would hate to try and drive that thing in stop-n-go traffic. I'm sure it is much better now, but I doubt is very effective unless you are cruising at a fairly constant speed with low torque demand, i.e, the conditions when most people use cruise control. Just an idea.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:44 AM   #42
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What if that switch was the cruise control? That seems the most reasonable way to do it to me. I drove one of the vettes that first had DOD and I would hate to try and drive that thing in stop-n-go traffic. I'm sure it is much better now, but I doubt is very effective unless you are cruising at a fairly constant speed with low torque demand, i.e, the conditions when most people use cruise control. Just an idea.
That'd be perfect! You put it on cruise control and save gas. Stop n go traffic, you're not going to get well anyway. But most ppl drive at least some point or majority of their daily commute using cruise control. So works for me.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:21 PM   #43
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Question....

The 1LE suspension is rather stiff (not harsh...just stiff)...what if the new Mustang offered a cushy ride on the regular GT model and that won a lot of people over who were only looking for a V8...or looks?
Good question. I'm not sure how to work that out.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:25 PM   #44
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Yeah, these mechanical High-Pressure Fuel Pumps are a PITA. Too big and they flow too much fuel at idle and low RPMs. Too small and they don't flow enough at the high RPMs. It would be nice if they had two, one that had a valve that didn't open to the fuel rails until the RPMs were above 4000, otherwise it just recirculates the fuel. I think that would solve the problem for high HP demands.
Have you guys thought of using a rising rate fuel pressure regulator? We've been using them for years in FI imports.

You mentioned wanting to be able to inject more fuel into the system aka the same way nitrous is done. We used to use sub-injectors that were RPM-reliant in FI cars in the 90s. These were nothing more than one or two fuel injectors that were tapped into the intake track and would only come on once a certain set RPM was hit. We got away from that when rising rate fuel regulators became more reliable in the early 2000s in conjunction with high-flow fuel pumps.

Just my 2 cents.

Good luck.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:26 PM   #45
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Have you guys thought of using a rising rate fuel pressure regulator? We've been using them for years in FI imports.

You mentioned wanting to be able to inject more fuel into the system aka the same way nitrous is done. We used to use sub-injectors that were RPM-reliant in FI cars in the 90s. These were nothing more than one or two fuel injectors that were tapped into the intake track and would only come on once a certain set RPM was hit. We got away from that when rising rate fuel regulators became more reliable in the early 2000s in conjunction with high-flow fuel pumps.

Just my 2 cents.

Good luck.
Very similar to what we are doing. When all else fails, go old school.

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Old 02-19-2013, 04:30 PM   #46
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Have you guys thought of using a rising rate fuel pressure regulator? We've been using them for years in FI imports.

You mentioned wanting to be able to inject more fuel into the system aka the same way nitrous is done. We used to use sub-injectors that were RPM-reliant in FI cars in the 90s. These were nothing more than one or two fuel injectors that were tapped into the intake track and would only come on once a certain set RPM was hit. We got away from that when rising rate fuel regulators became more reliable in the early 2000s in conjunction with high-flow fuel pumps.

Just my 2 cents.

Good luck.
Wouldn't you have to direct the fuel flow almost into the back side of the intake valve? The closer the better?
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:49 PM   #47
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Wouldn't you have to direct the fuel flow almost into the back side of the intake valve? The closer the better?
Not necessarily so. We were plumbing in before the throttle body. Here's a PDF of the GReddy Rebic IV we were using back in the day on my RX-7.

http://www.greddy.com/upload/file/Rebic_IV.pdf

The PDF tells you how it works and shows components that would be in a sub-injector kit.

The way things are now, the need for a sub-injector system have pretty much gone away with better injector, fuel pump and fuel management technology, BUT there's still a niche for this sort of system. Apparently, some people are still using them.

A rising rate fuel pressure regulator is the way to go if one is experiencing lean-out in the higher RPM band. Tuning it on a dyno is essential.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:50 PM   #48
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Very similar to what we are doing. When all else fails, go old school.

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Old 02-20-2013, 10:24 AM   #49
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In regards to AFM, we have an 08 Impala w/3.9 v6 AFM. You set the DIC for instant fuel mileage & watch it change back & forth between 3 & 6 cyl mode. It changes back to 6 with the slightest of throttle pressure increase whether accelerating or a slight increase in grade. I don't see how you could experience a lack of performance at any time, just hit the throttle. Also the switch back & forth is almost imperceptable. The only way I can feel it is if I lean my head against the window glass. I would think a v8/v4 would be even smoother.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:02 AM   #50
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In regards to AFM, we have an 08 Impala w/3.9 v6 AFM. You set the DIC for instant fuel mileage & watch it change back & forth between 3 & 6 cyl mode. It changes back to 6 with the slightest of throttle pressure increase whether accelerating or a slight increase in grade. I don't see how you could experience a lack of performance at any time, just hit the throttle. Also the switch back & forth is almost imperceptable. The only way I can feel it is if I lean my head against the window glass. I would think a v8/v4 would be even smoother.
...Good stuff....Yeah, I've never driven a car with AFM....(Doesn't seem to be very popular on these forums with the Camaros)....perhaps its not really a "performance" killer in the big scheme of things...

...But...my gosh...when I shopped for my '11, the L99s with AFM were rated at "1" mpg hwy mileage greater than the manual trans cars..."ONE!"...I could see AFM being the greatest thing since a pocket in a shirt if the mileage gains were vastly greater than those without AFM...

Just seems like a ton of technology and what-not for very little gain in mpg...on top of what is perceived as driving a "performance" car on four cylinders...dunno...
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