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Old 12-19-2012, 03:29 PM   #51
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The confirms it! 100% Alpha.
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current cts is sigma. ats is alpha. 2014 cts will be alpha. this makes sense.
keep in mind that lansing used to make cts, sts and srx(all sigma) they need to beuild 3 cars there.
There you guys go spreading rumors about future product. Stop it
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:37 PM   #52
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Only question now is Alpha (ATS) or Alpha LWB (CTS).
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:43 PM   #53
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OK - a couple of thoughts....

First - I'm very unhappy to read a couple of the comments on this thread. This should not be about making snide comments as to where we build Camaros -- that's divisive....so please, let's stop that...OK?

Second - I am proud of the men and women of Oshawa - they're doing a great job on all of the products that they build. All of them.

Third - we build RWD cars at Lansing Grand River. No one has said we're going to bring the next Gen Camaro off of Alpha or Sigma -- but I can tell you that Camaros have traditionally been RWD -- and frankly, I'll quote John Heinricy from years ago: "...the ugliest thing in the world would be to have smoke coming from the FRONT tires of a Camaro (or Firebird)..."

RWD!
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:04 PM   #54
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Glad mine shipped last week. Wouldn't want any workers kicking my quarter panels.

Seriously, Oshawa has done an awesome job with our cars. I believe they will continue to do so with other vehicles.

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Old 12-19-2012, 04:04 PM   #55
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I am just glad the Camaro has a bright future ahead of it.... It's great news for everyone. I guarantee the Oshawa plant won't suffer a bit. GM must have future product plans for it.
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:06 PM   #56
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I like what the GM executive said. Just because they are moving the Camaro to Lansing, does not automatically mean Camaro will have the ATS chassis.

I have wondered about that for a while. The idea that there are (2) Camaros on the lot. One is a 2014 weighing 3900. and a 2015 weighing 3400.

To me that is a drastic change. And it could "bother" the owners who have 2010-2014 models.

For this reason I have wondered what exactly they plan to do. I think people would be ecstatic to see a "new" Camaro that only weighs 3400 lbs or less. But when you do that, it makes the 2010-15 seem like those are inferior and (did not get the meaningful design it should have).

It did take time for the ATS to be developed. (Does the Gen 5 V8 fit into the ATS chassis? I have never checked on that. Surely it does. and if it doesn't, then they would make it fit for the Camaro I assume...)

Also, the ATS does not seem like it is all that wide. I'm curious what a Camaro-type of body shape would look like on that size chassis....
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:07 PM   #57
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:15 PM   #58
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This is great news!
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:19 PM   #59
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I am sure the plant knew before this press release. Let's at least hope so.
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:20 PM   #60
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It's one of those Bittersweet situations.....
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:21 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2001ragtop View Post
I like what the GM executive said. Just because they are moving the Camaro to Lansing, does not automatically mean Camaro will have the ATS chassis.

I have wondered about that for a while. The idea that there are (2) Camaros on the lot. One is a 2014 weighing 3900. and a 2015 weighing 3400.

To me that is a drastic change. And it could "bother" the owners who have 2010-2014 models.

For this reason I have wondered what exactly they plan to do. I think people would be ecstatic to see a "new" Camaro that only weighs 3400 lbs or less. But when you do that, it makes the 2010-15 seem like those are inferior and (did not get the meaningful design it should have).

It did take time for the ATS to be developed. (Does the Gen 5 V8 fit into the ATS chassis? I have never checked on that. Surely it does. and if it doesn't, then they would make it fit for the Camaro I assume...)

Also, the ATS does not seem like it is all that wide. I'm curious what a Camaro-type of body shape would look like on that size chassis....
It's pretty much a given. The only RWD passenger car platform worth using right now is Alpha. Zeta is on the way out and the full size Cadillac platform is too expensive and too big.

And yeah, it will bother 5th gen owners. But who cares? Every time a new generation is released, it's going to be better in some way than the last one. That's called progress.

Why should GM not produce the best Alpha-based Camaro they can just because a handful of 5th gen owners will be butthurt?

And yes, the LT1 does fit in Alpha.
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:30 PM   #62
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I see absolute no reason why the 6th Gen should not be better than the 5th Gen. How is that any different than the C6 Vette buyer with the new C7 Vette or the old Impala and new Impala. All new cars and trucks from GM should be generational advancement in technology, performance and quality to deliver GM excellence. That is what GM expects and that is what their loyal customers deserve.
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:39 PM   #63
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To those of us in the industry, this and more moves like it will likely be the norm amongst the big three.

No offense meant towards the fine workers at Oshawa and the high-quality products they produce - they are victims of the economic situation there.

However, the recent CAW contract did nothing to address and indeed actually worsened the disparity of labor costs between Canada and the U.S..

To be specific, Canada is now the highest priced country to produce autos in. Given the CAW's inability to grasp this, (coupled with Ford's quick capitulation to the CAW's demands) the result produced a contract with the big three that did nothing to alleviate this.

To see the exodus start from Canada to the U.S. as well as other, lower cost areas is only natural and expected. A company can't absorb noncompetitive labor costs out of a goodwill intent - you have to go where the costs are more reasonable.

The companies that are involved would certainly not admit this, but the CAW have only theirself to blame for forcing such an unrealistic contract on the big three.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:07 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
OK - a couple of thoughts....

First - I'm very unhappy to read a couple of the comments on this thread. This should not be about making snide comments as to where we build Camaros -- that's divisive....so please, let's stop that...OK?

Second - I am proud of the men and women of Oshawa - they're doing a great job on all of the products that they build. All of them.

Third - we build RWD cars at Lansing Grand River. No one has said we're going to bring the next Gen Camaro off of Alpha or Sigma -- but I can tell you that Camaros have traditionally been RWD -- and frankly, I'll quote John Heinricy from years ago: "...the ugliest thing in the world would be to have smoke coming from the FRONT tires of a Camaro (or Firebird)..."

RWD!


Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
I see absolute no reason why the 6th Gen should not be better than the 5th Gen. How is that any different than the C6 Vette buyer with the new C7 Vette or the old Impala and new Impala. All new cars and trucks from GM should be generational advancement in technology, performance and quality to deliver GM excellence. That is what GM expects and that is what their loyal customers deserve.


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The companies that are involved would certainly not admit this, but the CAW have only theirself to blame for forcing such an unrealistic contract on the big three.
"Only" is a big word...and it seems to ignore the much larger idea here of economies of scale and platform sharing...Whatever impact the cost of labor might have had - I hardly think it's the focus.

Especially not when they're adding vehicle production to the plant to make up for the eventual loss of Camaro. But...as I said, I truly don't believe this to be the focus of the decision - and so I'll end my thoughts there.

RWD
Economies of Scale
Parts/Platform/Assembly Line sharing.

These three things are HUGE.

Ever since rumors started flying about Alpha...I've been wondering when this move would happen...surely it had to be inevitable.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:13 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by 2001ragtop View Post
I like what the GM executive said. Just because they are moving the Camaro to Lansing, does not automatically mean Camaro will have the ATS chassis.

I have wondered about that for a while. The idea that there are (2) Camaros on the lot. One is a 2014 weighing 3900. and a 2015 weighing 3400.

To me that is a drastic change. And it could "bother" the owners who have 2010-2014 models.

For this reason I have wondered what exactly they plan to do. I think people would be ecstatic to see a "new" Camaro that only weighs 3400 lbs or less. But when you do that, it makes the 2010-15 seem like those are inferior and (did not get the meaningful design it should have).

It did take time for the ATS to be developed. (Does the Gen 5 V8 fit into the ATS chassis? I have never checked on that. Surely it does. and if it doesn't, then they would make it fit for the Camaro I assume...)

Also, the ATS does not seem like it is all that wide. I'm curious what a Camaro-type of body shape would look like on that size chassis....
I am not sure why this would be a concern? Aren't the 2013's just a little better than the 2010's? Of course they are! I am sure that people will gladly trade in their 5th gens for a 6th, its how you continue to sell cars buy improving what you have already built. If they are lighter and all GM has to do is keep the price comparable and continue along with the great styling and they will have a winner. It's like saying people were pissed that the 5th gen is better than the 4th gens..to each their own but the only thing I will be pissed about is if they never release a 5th gen Z/28!!!!!
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:16 PM   #66
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Only question now is Alpha (ATS) or Alpha LWB (CTS).
Praying for Alpha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2001ragtop View Post
I like what the GM executive said. Just because they are moving the Camaro to Lansing, does not automatically mean Camaro will have the ATS chassis.

I have wondered about that for a while. The idea that there are (2) Camaros on the lot. One is a 2014 weighing 3900. and a 2015 weighing 3400.

To me that is a drastic change. And it could "bother" the owners who have 2010-2014 models.

For this reason I have wondered what exactly they plan to do. I think people would be ecstatic to see a "new" Camaro that only weighs 3400 lbs or less. But when you do that, it makes the 2010-15 seem like those are inferior and (did not get the meaningful design it should have).

It did take time for the ATS to be developed. (Does the Gen 5 V8 fit into the ATS chassis? I have never checked on that. Surely it does. and if it doesn't, then they would make it fit for the Camaro I assume...)

Also, the ATS does not seem like it is all that wide. I'm curious what a Camaro-type of body shape would look like on that size chassis....
Thats just the way it is. How do you move forward without leaving something else behind? Look at the jump in performance from the 2010 Mustang GT to the 2011...huge difference.

A base Camaro in the 3,400lb or less range would be fan-damn-tastic, and if the ATS is any indication, then it is looking promising. If the car doesn't come out on Alpha, I hope GM has another top notch and lighter chasis up its sleeve.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:16 PM   #67
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The assumption appear to be that Oshawa is losing 85,000 units per year of production and the corresponding number of jobs. Utilization of a line is how OEMs make money. The plan for Oshawa is to increase the number of units built and the line utilization which may result in more jobs. That is the same story at Lansing, fill that line.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:18 PM   #68
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Canada,America makes no difference to me,I had an 02SS that never gave me a problem except for after 5yrs replaced one part on it,and problems can happen no matter where the vehicle is produced,I'm sure the Canadian auto workers appreciate the chance to build any car given them,I also don't knock people looking out for their families by securing better pay and working conditions I think we all do that union or not,I'm self employed and am always looking to lower cost and maximize income.I plan on owning a 13 or 14 Camaro in the near future and I'm sure where it was built will be the last thing on my mind while blasting through the curvesBut Oshawa workers please don't put 4 different tire sizes on the car for April 1 buildsAnd Thanks Merry X-Mas
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:22 PM   #69
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I see absolute no reason why the 6th Gen should not be better than the 5th Gen. How is that any different than the C6 Vette buyer with the new C7 Vette or the old Impala and new Impala. All new cars and trucks from GM should be generational advancement in technology, performance and quality to deliver GM excellence. That is what GM expects and that is what their loyal customers deserve.
I would guess that the biggest difference is that there will probably not be $15,000 discounts on 5th gen Camaros when the 6th gens start showing up on the lots.
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:35 PM   #70
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It would seem that the Camaro patient has not only been revived but is now thriving... bring on the 6th, 7th, 8th...
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Old 12-19-2012, 05:59 PM   #71
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It would seem that the Camaro patient has not only been revived but is now thriving... bring on the 6th, 7th, 8th...


Exactly!!!
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:01 PM   #72
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Wow great for the people of Lansing it's a good thing. Grew up in Lansing worked at fisher body plant in the 60s and 70s help to build 442's cutlass and other great Oldsmobiles the people there will benefit greatly

my dad owned a copper colored 1970 442, 455 ci V8, that thing was a beast
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:08 PM   #73
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I just care that it made well. And made by people who love cars.
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:13 PM   #74
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Cool, right in my neigborhood!
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Old 12-19-2012, 06:19 PM   #75
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damn, that really sucks! I am really proud that the Camaro has been made in Oshawa for the run of the 5th gen, and was just talking to my friend the other day about going to the plant to se my 6th gen made when they are released and mine was ordered. This is probably going to destroy oshawa, as it looks like the Camaro is the leading car made here, and by the looks of the lots when theya re full, they are probably 70% camaros at any given time. damn, this is a nut shot to oshawa! :(
They also make the Impala, Equinox, Buick Regal Gs and will build the 2013 Cadillac XTS.
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