[MichaelH]

Originally Posted by thePill

Thanks man, I appreciate that... Now, I will tell you what I dug up today on this 5.8. I hear, but in no way confirmed that the new 5.8 will be upgraded from the 5.4 in the same fashion that the 5.0 was upgraded from the 4.6. That means that in order to save money, Ford will be using most of the 5.4s tooling in order to make pretty much a brand new engine (Coyote Long Stroke possibly). When the 5.0 was conceived, it used most of the 4.6s existing tooling, Ford eliminated unneeded mass with block webbing and used what they could from the 4.6... ended up being very little. This is why the 5.0 and 4.6 are almost exactly the same weight even though the TiVCT unit was added, stronger block but physically smaller dimensions.

SVT, and I have all the reason to believe this, understands that horsepower and torque is not the only answer in this battle. I have no word on suspension systems and tires yet but the cheapest, most feasible option would be to use the same Ford Racing parts that the GT350 used. This Ford Racing equipped GT350 goes 0-60 in 3.7, 1/4 mile in 12 flat at 121, 1.05g and only used Goodyear 255fr/285rr 19"s, produced 524hp/490tq and weighed 3816lbs. What made the car handle better/better traction, it isn't underrated, it dyno'd at 473hp... It isn't the Goodyears... Definitely not the weight. It was a combination of things however, the aggressive suspension system helped dramatically. The twins were seen using 19" wheels on all four corners and the only way you would want to run a smaller diameter wheel is because you need the clearance for some extra width and, 19 inch tires of similar profiles will spin faster using the same 3.73s.. and who knows, maybe this new 5.8 will use a beefy MT82 to save some money and really get those tires turning... SVT knows they need more traction, simply adding suspension would be enough, adding more tire and perhaps some Corsa's would really be something....

It is funny you bring up the conflict between the Corvette and the Camaro. The top dog ZR1 produces 638hp... A great strategy for Ford would be to bump their horsepower right up next to the ZR1 and challenge the Camaro to do the same. Of course GM would have nothing of this and surely bump the Vette eventually, but now they are working on two cars just because of the SVT Mustang, one is running from it, the other is chasing it... Anyone I see comparing a Mustang to a Corvette is usually laughed at by both sides and Ford wants nothing to do with the Corvette as far as the Mustang is concerned. This does put Chevrolet in a position. The Camaro wants to beat the Mustang but has to do so without beating the Corvette, it is actually quite brilliant.

Edit: As for the ZL1, I am sure Chevrolet will make improvements in 2013 and that car will probably put the 2012 ZL1 to shame. Regarding the ZL1s Nurburgring time, how about we eliminate the full roll cage and run the car again.. Unless Chevrolet plans to sell the car with the cage in it, I wouldn't have released the lap time until the car was without one. Imagine the rigidity that a simple strut tower brace or sub frame connectors add, then imagine tying the entire interior together with a roll cage. Weight would be increased, interior has to be stripped.. but if you really think about it, a roll cage increases rigidity by 100%, and if the figure could go beyond that, I am sure it would. The 2011 Mustang increased it chassis rigidity buy like 3-4% buy using some suspension tricks and cross bar, the Camaro convertible also had integrated structure reinforcement as all convertibles do. If you were do remove that structure, the car would not be running a mid 7 minute lap and according to the SCCA and NASA the extra weight gained by a cage is completely offset by the increased handling that a cage provides. How many Ring runs were done with cars that used cages? It is a simple trick for simple minds... and Ford is doing this too however, they certainly won't go public with an "official" lap time on a pre-production car with a roll cage. To put it simply, these cars will not replicate these times without the added structure. It is a great testing tool and provides protection for the driver but if the GT500 and ZL1 is already heavy cars to begin with, and other cars run faster laps without a cage... the only logical explanation is that the car(s) lacked the support and needed it. What is the difference between a Boss 302 LS and a Boss 302R? about 150lbs and a full roll cage and the Boss 302R puts about 6-7 seconds on the LS at a small track (3 minute laps), over 8 minutes, this could be 15-17 seconds...

Hey there was one mustang i actually really really like and was wondering if you know if there going to bring it back the terminator cobra. that thing was one awesome machine. im not a big fan of mustangs jus preference, but i loved the cobra and do hope it comes back

[JUISSD]

Originally Posted by 4DoorRocket

That's great. I love the GT500. I look forward to seeing what kind of #'s it puts out. An upgraded suspension and stickier/wider tires, combined with it's newly IRS, will make it beastly, considering it will be making 630-650 horsepower. So I wouldn't be counting it out. After all, it is an SVT product and everyone knows the kind of cars they can put out.

As for the time around the "Burg"...

It laid down a quick time, but obviously, the conditions were perfect. No way that car beats out the ZR1 around there. That's why I hate when they do lap times. The conditions are never the same nor are the drivers.

Either way, these horsepower wars should be fun and the cars should be both fun to drive.

The ZR1's best time is 22 seconds faster than the ZL1.

[5thGenOwner]

Originally Posted by big hammer

and yes the pill is annoying.

I personally think GM leaked this because they KNOW they were faster than whoever the heck "red" is. LOL

As for thePill... he keeps you on your toes, and he knows how to make complete sentences. I don't agree with much of what he says, but he says it in a civil manner. Lastly... I hate YES MEN; we need not surround ourselves with YES MEN. (this kind of debate is healthy)

[thePill]

Originally Posted by MichaelH

Hey there was one mustang i actually really really like and was wondering if you know if there going to bring it back the terminator cobra. that thing was one awesome machine. im not a big fan of mustangs jus preference, but i loved the cobra and do hope it comes back

Everybody loves the Terminator, just to let you know, model year 2013 will be both SVT and the Cobra's 20th Anniversary... Will we see the Terminator this year replacing the GT500? Seems like a pretty good time to unleash the Terminator (this will be the Terminators 10th Ann but the actual 1993 Cobra's 20th). We might see it, but it will all come down to the Shelby/Ford contract.

Originally Posted by 5thGenOwner

I personally think GM leaked this because they KNOW they were faster than whoever the heck "red" is. LOL

As for thePill... he keeps you on your toes, and he knows how to make complete sentences. I don't agree with much of what he says, but he says it in a civil manner. Lastly... I hate YES MEN; we need not surround ourselves with YES MEN. (this kind of debate is healthy)

Awww... I'm gonna have to photoshop some rosy red cheeks on my profile pic because the community support here is making me blush. Just for reference for your future post, an average sentence has 13 words in it. Sentences can be shortened to illustrate an impact (example)... Or a sentence can be lengthened, as long as correct punctuation is used, to illustrate a point and communicate it correctly (example #2)

Now, Red is the color, and the name of the fastest GT500 test mule that was running during the 10 day industry booking in June. The times recorded by onlookers will NEVER be official. Many of the test mules are given "pet names" especially if there is more than one so we can identify them in conversation.

[MichaelH]

Originally Posted by thePill

Everybody loves the Terminator, just to let you know, model year 2013 will be both SVT and the Cobra's 20th Anniversary... Will we see the Terminator this year replacing the GT500? Seems like a pretty good time to unleash the Terminator (this will be the Terminators 10th Ann but the actual 1993 Cobra's 20th). We might see it, but it will all come down to the Shelby/Ford contract.

I see well i hope they do come back with it even though it'll be hard for the camaro to compete with it. its still one awesome machine

[8cd03gro]

Originally Posted by truth411

Exactly its not just about HP, its also about chasis and design execution which is why i say generally speaking when it comes to performance vehicles GM > FORD I.E... CTS-V, G8 GXP, Z06, ZR1, ZL1 etc... Hell GM's magna ride is 10 years ahead of its time imo, ferrari uses the same tech after GM pioneered it. I think when it comes to the camaro chasis there's more headroom for potential, just my opinion though. The Ford GT was slower than the C6 Z06 that's a great example.

It absolutely was not when the GT was still in production. Where do you get that idea? Ford doesn't have competitors for most of the cars you listed. The Mustang chassis has plenty of room for improvement. Making the assumption that Ford just doesn't have the tech to keep up is a huge stretch. The GT-R licensed plasma wire arc from Ford which was developed and used for just one model in Ford's lineup. Like I said, look back at the 2003 cobra and what it was doing to GM's lineup, even the corvettes. Look at what they did with the 5.0 and Boss on a solid rear axle. If Ford comes out of the gates swinging you better believe they will be right on par with the zl1. If tech were the end-all of automotive performance, the GT-R would dominate every car on the road, but it hardly does. SVT goes overboard and swings for the fences. ZL1 is very, very quick and there's no reason to believe Ford won't come out with a very, very good competitor. Either way, I need a lot more mods for these cars

[Blue Maro Demon]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

This is exactly why I said you don't have a clue what u are talking about. The pathetic suspension on the current GT500 you are talking about is killing the M3s and Porsches around Laguna Seca but I don't expect you to know much about suspension, you own a "drag car". You know sticky tires, wheelie bars, and monstrous engines, and going straight. You are the only super-biased person here. BTW, you referred to the 3 little cars you see in my sig...here is what they are.... your dream, my reality. But I like your ABM V6 Camaro.

LOL Sorry but the three cars in YOUR sig are FAR from my 3 car dream line-up. While yes I do like your Inferno Orange SS I could do without the Shelby Cobra or the Shelby GT500 Mustang you own. Now maybe if it was a 1969 Z/28 Camaro, a 1965 Corvette Stingray, 2009 Corvette ZR-1-THAT would be my dream. Sorry but Ford or Mustangs in general have NEVER done much for me in the way of looks for sure. My sister had a 98 Mustang that I drove numerous times and I never cared much for it. Same for the 90's Fox body Mustangs while they make VERY good performance cars looks wise they are lacking.
In general I think that most people will agree that from an automotive design standpoint Chevrolet has the edge over Ford when it comes to design when it comes to sports cars in general. Yeah the Ford GT is nice from the outside but the interior not so much.

[Blue Maro Demon]

Originally Posted by Txmxracer

1) I also like thePill's posts because they are informative and grammatically correct.
2) I also believe the next GT500 will beat out the ZL1; that is the reason why they are making the car to begin with. Then the ZL1 will have some revisions and become top dog again, and then the Mustang, and so on. The only thing that could prohibit the Camaro's growth is the Corvette. Personally, I think the Corvette needs to become a more exclusive super car. I am a little radical in my thinking but make the Z06 the slowest and cheapest Vette there is, and build up from there. Chevy could insert a cheaper yet sporty 2-seater into their line up with a car similar to the Sky and the Solstice for people in that market. Then the Camaro won't have any toes that they could possibly step on.

I'm not so sure if the 2013 Shelby will ever beat the new ZL1 why I am saying this is because the new 2013 ZL1 will likely have revisions on it to either match or outperform the 13 Shelby. Yeah the 13 Shelby may beat the 12 ZL1 for a limited time before the 13 ZL1 is released but once it is released probably not. The new Corvette will likely be released and unveiled for the first time next year sometime. I think people should be commending Chevrolet for being able to produce 2 cars back to back of this magnitude in both the ZL1 Camaro & the C7 Corvette. I think the release dates for Ford & Chevrolet products are different so we will see. You can bet the next ZL1 will likely have 600hp or more from the factory given that everyone already knows including GM themselves what the 13 GT500 will be packing. I think the main thing that the Mustang has in its advantage is its weight we will have to see what they have when it comes to tech once we get more info.

[Blue Maro Demon]

Originally Posted by snakekiller

calm down the red mustang was indeed testing in the same time frame as the zl1, thePill is just being to fanatical. something tells me the mustang will have the last laugh, SVT is very secretive and rarely falls for this new lap times thing every manufacturer is doing today.

Like Truth 411 said GM>Ford when it comes to performance cars. Theres a reason everytime you watch Pinks on SPEED and when you go to car shows and drag races Mustangs have a Chevy engine in them-hint its not for giggles and laughs.

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

Like Truth 411 said GM>Ford when it comes to performance cars. Theres a reason everytime you watch Pinks on SPEED and when you go to car shows and drag races Mustangs have a Chevy engine in them-hint its not for giggles and laughs.

Let's be honest, it's because, in general, they are cheaper to modify, not necessarily because they are better. I mean, a pushrod engine is ancient technology, right?

[snakekiller]

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

Like Truth 411 said GM>Ford when it comes to performance cars. Theres a reason everytime you watch Pinks on SPEED and when you go to car shows and drag races Mustangs have a Chevy engine in them-hint its not for giggles and laughs.

sure...

[Blue Maro Demon]

Originally Posted by tooslow

Let's be honest, it's because, in general, they are cheaper to modify, not necessarily because they are better. I mean, a pushrod engine is ancient technology, right?

Yeah the pushrod is an old engine design but it does get the job done still. Can't wait to see GM's next generation of engines once the C7 is out... 5.5 liter anyone?

[snakekiller]

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

LOL Sorry but the three cars in YOUR sig are FAR from my 3 car dream line-up. While yes I do like your Inferno Orange SS I could do without the Shelby Cobra or the Shelby GT500 Mustang you own. Now maybe if it was a 1969 Z/28 Camaro, a 1965 Corvette Stingray, 2009 Corvette ZR-1-THAT would be my dream. Sorry but Ford or Mustangs in general have NEVER done much for me in the way of looks for sure. My sister had a 98 Mustang that I drove numerous times and I never cared much for it. Same for the 90's Fox body Mustangs while they make VERY good performance cars looks wise they are lacking.
In general I think that most people will agree that from an automotive design standpoint Chevrolet has the edge over Ford when it comes to design when it comes to sports cars in general. Yeah the Ford GT is nice from the outside but the interior not so much.

your not grasping what he men't, sadly he at least can compare both brands back to back, since he owns both. the ford GT was defiantly awesome on both the inside and outside, something the corvette has lost. the current corvette interior can't even be compared to the ford GT.

[tooslow]

Originally Posted by Blue Maro Demon

Yeah the pushrod is an old engine design but it does get the job done still. Can't wait to see GM's next generation of engines once the C7 is out... 5.5 liter anyone?

Yep, it does, no less than the solid rear axle in the Mustang, wouldn't you agree?